More bewildering scriptures

by cptkirk 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I provided a link to the pseudoapocryphal book, cptkirk. Are you reading the bible for revelation, to confirm that the WTS interpretation is flawed, or to consider if it is reliable at all?

    If you are getting sick of it all, I agree. Read something else.

    Product Details

    QED: The Strange Theory of Light and Matter (Princeton Science Library) by Richard P. Feynman and A. Zee (Apr 4, 2006)

    or

    The Language Instinct: How the Mind Creates Language by Steven Pinker (Aug 23 2007)

    or

    The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference by Malcolm Gladwell (Jan 7 2002)

    or

    Freakonomics by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner (Aug 17 2009)

  • cptkirk
    cptkirk

    from the perspective of an atheist who just thinks the whole thing is "interesting", is there even one scripture that you can show me (again from a non-believer standpoint) from NWT to any other translation that is *vastly* different? that a non-believer is going to say yea that is really different to the point that it affects the overall theme? the minute that i left the org i re-enrolled in college so i got more than enough to read right now.

  • cptkirk
    cptkirk

    I should have just answered your question directly then added that reply. i am reading the NWT as a "bible" that is about it really. the reason that i replied the first time the way i did is because, if you can show me vast differences then i will use a different one, but this is the one i have. i wouldn't mind getting a copy with the apoc in the back, because i've seen them around.

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    The notion that Moses is up and walking around during Jesus time, when also according to the JW nobody of Moses time was anointed, therefore he would have no chance at being anointed (so the idea that he went to spirit form in their argument isn't even possible).....(citing scripture in greek scriptures that says something about nobody is greater than such and such if they were born after such and such time). I'm sure some people know the scripture that I'm talking about.

    Actually... Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and many of the ancient men of old will be in the kingdom. The only requirement for getting anointed with holy spirit is that you be alive in the flesh after Pentecost. Since all in the first resurrection come back in the flesh first to rule with Christ for 1000 years who is also in the flesh, they can get anointed retroactively. In the meantime, the greatness of those anointed is considered greater than any of the prophets before, including the greatest of all prophets, John the Baptist.

    So understandably, some presume by that comparison of greatest before death of all those ancient ones compared to those anointed into the kingdom, one presumes none of those before would be in the kingdom. Wrong. To prove that, we have scriptures like Luke 13 that includes Abraham and others in the kingdom:

    Luke 13:28 "There is where [YOUR] weeping and the gnashing of [YOUR] teeth will be, when YOU see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves thrown outside. "

    NOW, doesn't it make more sense that all thse great ancient men of old should be up in heaven with Jehovah and Christ at one time? Of course! This is the "better resurrection" that Moses is said was hoping for. So, indeed, the Israelites and those worshipping Yahweh understood there was a coming resurrection, in fact, two; and a "better" resurrection is the first.

    So even if Moses was resurrected back into the flesh for that time with Jesus, he wasn't a spirit. He was just in God's memory. At the first resurrection, he will be resurrected back into the flesh like the rest of the elect to join those already alive when Christ arrives. At that point, those who died before Pentecost can be anointed and sealed into the kingdom. Thus Jehovah and Christ will have all their "favorites" in the kingdom, from Enoch and I guess Able, all the way down to us. But also keep in mind Isa 6:13 which says a tree will be chopped down but the root will remain, which is 1/10th of the tree:

    Isa 6:13 And there will still be in it a tenth, and it must again become something for burning down, like a big tree and like a massive tree in which, when there is a cutting down [of them], there is a stump; a holy seed will be the stump of it.”

    That simply means 1/10th of the kingdom of priests will be Jewish, 12,000 from each tribe and thus the 144,000 is a reference to this holy root. These are the ones who sing the "song of Moses" and thus they are natural Israelites. If the 144,000 is this holy root, and thus only 1/10th of the kingdom, then all the seats in the kingdom are 1,440,000! Something else the WTS has wrong. But so what, they are cast out into spiritual darkness.

    RUFUSAL TO REBUKE IN HARSH TERMS: Indeed, this seems an ambiguous reference and I'm not sure what Satan would have done with the body. It has been suggested if he was buried in some grand manner that some would begin to worship him as a god. Perhaps Satan would have inspired this. But maybe Satan had expressed some desire to desecrate his body in some way for personal gratification if that body were available to him; thus Jehovah hid it, not only from the Israelites but from Satan. Whatever it was, it was so offensive that Jesus was going to curse Satan out using "abusive" terms. But he restrained from doing so, allowing Jehovah to rebuke Satan. So my interpretation is that Jesus was not afraid to rebuke Satan, but didn't want to use "abusive" terms, that is, what we'd call "profanity." You, know, he probably wanted to call Satan an "evil, sick bitch!" --- but he didn't. Now remember, Satan was once in the capacity as Jesus' companion on Mount Zion. The two angels on the Ark represent Christ and Satan in his original position. But that position was also considered the position as Jesus' wife. Remember, Jesus will MARRY the church. He is getting a new wife that will serve as the temple. Well, that original concept included Christ and a wife, only that original wife or "woman" (Genesis 3:15) was Satan.

    Now to Christ in Eden Jehovah said: "I will put enmity between you and the woman [Satan] and between your seed and her seed [Satan's followers.] So that was sort of an arrangement where Christ and Satan would oppose each other over time until Christ and his angels kick Satan out of heaven. So Christ respected that arrangement.

    INSIDE TRIVIA: Now I actually saw Satan once. It was just before I became the Christ. Jehovah had called him to bet on how much pain I could endure. I didn't understand. Satan didn't seem to interested in making a wager. I protested a little and so God called it off and dismissed Satan. But what I was surprised about, was that Satan was right there with Jehovah. But that isn't new! Remember, Satan and Jehovah bet against each other before when it came to Job!

    Anyway, after Satan got kicked out of heaven, the angels rejoiced and partied for three whole days afterward. So Satan was a huge pain in the arse in heaven and they were glad now to have some peace. Just some "inside" trivia.

    Now Satan bruised Christ in the heel when he killed him while in human form. Christ will bruise Satan, the serpent, in the head when he is cast into the lake of fire. But I wonder if he will curse Satan in abusive terms when that happens?

    So Satan knows he's going to die. He has nothing to lose but to do his best to kill off as many others as possible. Satan has been successful in turning many of God's servants away from him over time. When God finds someone focussed and devoted, he likes to show them off I guess. All the elect love Jehovah and would put their own life on the line in support of Jehovah's will and judgments. They don't love their own lives as much as they love their God. Satan can't get past that.

  • cptkirk
    cptkirk

    you are christ? seems like you'd have more pressing business ?

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    You know, the 1st resurrection occurs just before the 2nd coming. The 2nd coming occurred 20 years ago on December 25, 1992.

    How is this possible? Read 1 Corinthians 15. It says the dead are like seeds that are sown into bodies, physical bodies first. These bodies though, are imperfect. They are said to be weak and corruptible, etc. That is the condition of the common man. But what people don't realize is that they are sown into living bodies of other elect ones! That makes the resurrection totally invisible and also it eliminates having to adjust these resurrected ones to the modern world. They share all the knowledge and the identity of a living person. READ 1 CORINTHIANS 15! But don't worry, the Bible says God choses each match and he also says only one seed per body. So there's a memory o apst life, I suppose, not a multiple personality issue. It's wonderful.

    I know the resurrection took place because I know the identity of Daniel and Peter. That is, the person chosen to host the identities of Peter and Daniel are people I just happen to know personally. So I knew that before I became the Christ. This is all secret and underground and, of course, hard to believe unless you're part of it. But God intended that. That means there is no easy waySatan can highjack the elect. As the Bible says, they are hidden in the "wilderness", "away from the face o the dragon" meaning they do not display themselves publicly. Satan and his spies cannot see them. Hard to believe, huh?

    But it is true. The Bible clearly says no one goes to heaven before anyone else. That means when all are changed into spirit beings, which is after they have served as king-priests during the millennium and after Judgment Day and after Satan is destroyed and all the earth is filled with righteous persons, THEN is when they put on their spiritual bodies. So you see, they havre a lot of work to do on the earth to save others before they go up to heaven to get their reward. But those chosen are the "meek" and selfless ones anyway.

    Plus God is conscious to make sure everybody is equal and a necessary and honorable part of the body. Those with roles that would be less honorable, those are the ones that have higher rank in the kingdom. Just as we are proud to show the beautiful parts of our body, like the eyes and face, we cover our genitalia and anus. But these are necessary parts of the body so the whole body can function. So those with the least personal glory have great roles in heaven. Thus Christ himself, like the resurrected ones, takes up the body of someone else. That person had to undergo a symbolic death before witnesses. Now it sounds hoaky, but guess what they came up with? They dumped me into a dump truck and began to compress the trash. I had a chance to speak out and scream, but I didn't. Jehovah told me not to. And I figured if I was to die this way, then I was ready. Of course, by now I knew I was one of the approved anointed and I knew I would be up in heaven, I guess. I thought that. Now, of course, I know better. But who cares about death if you are in Jehovah's favor. So I did that. Then I became the Christ. I sort of gave up my pesonal life to do whatever was needed of me as the Christ.

    Still hard to believe? Well that is what the Bible presents. Someone with the shameful history of the "prodigal son", which included a life of homosexuality and even prostitution, all that was forgiven. With that very shameful past, I would be considered the "least" one in the kingdom. But because of that, I have the highest position of all, the honor of being with Christ all the time and being the Christ in the flesh. It is grand! So the least in their personal life, get to have high positions in heaven so that everybody feels equal. Thus their honor and glory is not their own, but that of Jehovah, which also reflects his forgiveness. Many will not understand this, how someone who left God and had a life of sin could be chosen as the Christ. This is what the older brother in the parable of the prodigal son goes through. He just can't accept how his younger brother was chosen for this honor. But Jehovah knows what he is doing. Somone forgiven of many sins, as the Bible says, is going to all the more focused and devoted and thankful for that second chance. Their ego has been removed almost. They are happy just to be in God's favor again -- nothing else matters.

    Still can't believe it? Well... maybe you can't unless God wants you to. Unless you have holy spirit. What is spiritual seems like nonsense to those of the flesh.. PLUS:

    ACTS 13:41 "Behold it, you scorners, and wonder at it, and vanish away, because I am working a work in your days, a work that you will by no means believe even if anyone relates it to you in detail."

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Enjoy college, cptkirk.

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