Did we ever fulfill Mathew 24:14?

by raymond frantz 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • WTWizard

    I can only hope other countries soon join the less than 0.05, then 0.01% categories. Hopefully this list will grow quite long. I am hoping for Japan (their former showcase), South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Chile, Argentina, all Scandinavian countries, Germany, and France to join the list. I doubt the United Tyranny of Stupidity would join--there is so much outright stupidity in this country that too many witlesses remain witlesses for life.

    But for countries like Mexico and Brazil, having boasted great growth in recent years, a slip back to less than 0.05% would serve the witlesses right. Italy would also give the witlesses a slap in the face if they dropped below 0.05%. Remember those as countries where the cancer has been growing rapidly in recent years?

  • Larsinger58

    Vanderhoven: How wonderful for you to break this down and explain this interpretation.

    But, Luke places the events at Jerusalem prior to those events that would be part of the parousia of Christ. Luke does not mention Daniel at all in connection with Jerusalem. So please note the specifics:

    LUKE 21:

    10 Then he went on to say to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; 11 and there will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another pestilences and food shortages; and there will be fearful sights and from heaven great signs.

    12 “But before all these things people will lay their hands upon YOU and persecute YOU, delivering YOU up to the synagogues and prisons, YOU being haled before kings and governors for the sake of my name. 13 It will turn out to YOU for a witness. 14 Therefore settle it in YOUR hearts not to rehearse beforehand how to make YOUR defense, 15 for I will give YOU a mouth and wisdom, which all YOUR opposers together will not be able to resist or dispute. 16 Moreover, YOU will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of YOU to death; 17 and YOU will be objects of hatred by all people because of my name. 18 And yet not a hair of YOUR heads will by any means perish. 19 By endurance on YOUR part YOU will acquire YOUR souls.

    20 “Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·de´a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her; 22 because these are days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those days! For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled."

    Okay. Note verse 10 where it is clear Luke is talking about the same events as in Matthew and Mark that are connected to the events associated with the return of Christ. But when Luke talks about Jerusalem, he introduces that event as coming BEFORE all these things! That's because the events leading up to the 2nd coming, including the unive "great tribulation" mentioned by Daniel -- and Luke says nothing about fulfilling Daniel here--occurs specifically in modern times, with the 2nd coming itself occurring 2520 years after the fall of Jerusalem. Whether you are convinced that is 607 BCE, 587 BCE or 529 BCE, all dates occur in the 20th Century (i.e. 1914, 1934 or 1992!) If you accept this, then it might seem that Luke is making a contradiction, but he is not as we see in verse 12, he introduces events that will be "before" the physical fall of Jerusalem.

    But even though the Holocaust fulfills Daniel's 'great tribulation" between 1940-1947, there are THREE PARALELS in scripture regarding this, which have chronological significance.

    1) The PASSION OF CHRIST, that is, from the time of his arrest until his death and resurrection, reflects on what happened at Jerusalem and as well what happens during the HOLOCAUST. That is, Jesus being surrounded in the garden represents Jerusalem being surrounded by encamped aries. But here we apply the chronology. Jesus was arrested on Saturday morning, Nisan 15th and died the following Thursday, Nisan 20th, after which he was in the grave for 3 nights, rising on early Sunday morning before 3 a.m. You can apply these 8 days to the time of the HOLOCAUST.

    2) We learn the fulfillment of the "disgusting thing in a holy place" is an army that surrounds the holy city. Thus there is a parallel chronology in regards to 70 CE and the fall of Jerusalem.

    3) But the period of 8 days of Christ's passion predicts the 8 days involved from the time the Nazi army surrounds Warsaw, which by far had the highest concentration of Jews, thus representing Jerusalem, in late 1939 until the resurrection which represents the restoration of the Jews to their homeland.

    So, indeed, what happens to Jerusalem in 70 CE prophesies what will happen in modern times. So of note, late in 1939, Hitler literally surrounded Warsaw, Poland, which represents antitypical Jerusalem, with canons and bombarded that city until it fell. Then there was a short time when you could flee out of the city to the mountains before the Nazis bricked in the Jewish ghetto there in Warsaw and other places, after which they were liquidated.

    Historicaly, of course, the HOLOCAUST is considered to be a unique event. Further, Zech 13:8 notes that after two-thirds of the Jews were exterminated, the remaining third would be restored to their homeland following this "great tribulation." That did not happen in 70 CE. Further, luke confirms the "appointed times of the nations" would continue until its appointed times end. The setting was the Jews going into exile. So when they are seen returning and controlling their own homeland again, that is when the "appointed times of the nations" would end.

    So again, after Luke introduces events to occur during the time of the end, he clearly says, BUT BEFORE THESE THINGS... after which he introduces the fall of Jerusalem. He never mentions Daniel. So Jerusalem is not a part of the last days. It has parallels but does not fulfill that one-time great tribulation as does the HOLOCAUST.

    But thanks for your references! The "great tribulation" of Matthew must occur between a 7-year period from 1940-1947 to fulfill the chronology. In modern times, the Jews are in exile, so "Judea" becomes a reference to where most of the Jews had settled, which is Eastern Europe, and "Jerusalem", the holy city would be where the largest population of Jews had settled, which was Warsaw, Poland. That city was literally surrounded by the Nazis just as an army surrounded Jerusalem.

    Thanks, again, for your comments and the scriptures!

  • smiddy

    How can I print the map without getting every other comment , I just want the map. Oh by the way thanks Cedars


  • Xanthippe

    Not if the end hasn't come. It didn't come did it, did I miss something?

  • bats in the belfry
    bats in the belfry

    smiddy >> Put your mouse pointer over the map, right click and 'Save Image As..."

    Then print the map or run it through a drawing program. like MS Paint, etc.

  • Ucantnome

    i don't believe it was the right Good News and it lead to not partaking of the emblems.

  • Fernando

    Since as blind materialists they walk by flesh and sight, instead of by spirit, they are only able to discern the future physical dimensions of the Kingdom in relation to this earth alone.

    The Kingdom is far more than this.

    It is especially about us ordinary folk being transformed from within and led by Holy Spirit without the "help" of middlemen.

    This is shocking to the ruling religious clergy class (builders of a competing kingdom). That is why the cornerstone of the Kingdom is referred to as as a "rock mass of offense" and a "stone of stumbling".

  • Phizzy

    Just to repeat, for emphasis LOL, the WT/JW's have NEVER preached the Gospel or Good news that Jesus referred to, so could never fulfill any prophecy concerning that Gospel.

    Everything they preach negates the true Gospel that Jesus gave.

    We have to remember that the Gospels were written after the 70CE destruction,(a few verses of Mark may pre date the destruction perhaps), so to put in to the mouth of Jesus a "prophecy" that the readers have seen fulfilled makes (fiction writing) sense. To look for a later fulfilment than the end of the Jewish system in 70CE seems to have no backing whatsoever.

    Ever since the early 1800's people have been fiddling with various scriptures and coming up with wonderful explanations that strangely always find fulfillment around their own time.

    Modern Bible scholarship, coupled wth common sense, makes this kind of exercise as valuable as calculating horoscopes, i.e worthless.

  • Pterist

    Lars *** Luke does not mention Daniel at all in connection with Jerusalem.****

    Luke may NOT have specifically mentioned Daniel by name, however, it has been observed by Bible scholars that Luke is the ONLY one of the gospel writers who identifies "the disgusting thing that causes desolation" as the Roman army surrounding Jerusalem. Based on this observation it has been concluded that he wrote his Gospel with hindsight after this event. I concur with VanderHoven7's excellent details on how these events were specifically fulfilled in 70 AD.

    Christ next visit to earth, is like a THIEF in the night, NO SIGNS, and no further dealing with sin.

    Hebrews 9:28

    so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.

  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    Vanderhoven: How wonderful for you to break this down and explain this interpretation.

    I agree.

    I didn't read the rest of Larsinger's post after that statement though.

    Vanderhoven: How wonderful for you to break this down and explain this interpretation.

Share this