The stench of Amateur Bible auto-didacts!

by Terry 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Christ Alone

Yes, Biblical inerrancy is a big one and one that nearly every mainstream Christian church teaches. Those that believe the Bible to be wrong in several places are defintely the minority.
And what you say is the very reason why I personally don't attend a denominational church. There tends to be a more strict statement as to what you can and can't believe. But I haven't found this to be the case in the churches that I've attended. In fact on a few occasions I've gone to the pastor following a sermon, and told him what I disagreed with. We were able to discuss the matter and while we still disagreed at the end...it was ok. No df'ing because I didn't believe what he taught.
That's not going to be the case in every church. And I'm not trying to give some false impression of unity, as JWs do. As you said, youtube is full of religious people bickering and condemning each other. I'm certainly not attracted to that.
Some churches are mainly social. But I'm not attracted to those either. There is a growing movement to encourage more intellectual study in churches today. And that is what I'm personally hoping for. Give the Christians some backbone.
Terry

I can’t begin telling all the asinine mind-farts like that I’ve heard over the years from some elder wetting his pants over a perceived epiphany after reviewing a tidbit in his copy of Strong, Thayer or Smith's at his home library by himself at midnight.
I have to mention that in the 6 years working at the bookstore the religious reference book most often brought in to sell to us was the Strong's.
Sooner or later all serious Christians sit down with their bible and Strong's and look up, for example, "eli eli sabachthani" or other puzzlements.
A rural gentleman confided in me that God's real name was "Eli" which he pronounced "Ee-Lie". He found it in Strong's.
Terry

There is a growing movement to encourage more intellectual study in churches today. And that is what I'm personally hoping for. Give the Christians some backbone.
One of my close friends is an 81 year old ex-Baptist minister with one leg named Dub. (I don't know the name of his other leg.....)
He and I will sit in a coffee shop and he'll go out of his way to start conversations with strangers. It is most natural to him.
The other day there were two ladies sitting studying their NIV's and marking passages and taking notes.
Dub jumped over to their table (well, he wobbled over, actually) and chatted them up.
I sat and eavesdropped...
They were Seminary Students at the local Baptist college.
Dub likes to try and tell such people something or other they'd never heard before. (He's really big on "fringe" beliefs that make me roll my eyes.) But, he
is well-schooled with degrees from 3 separate seminaries to his credit.
Well, was he surprised (and so was I!)
These ladies were sharp as a tack! They really knew their stuff and Dub had to beat a hasty retreat. I'm still smiling.
I'd love for those two to get into a deep discussion with some JW sisters and watch the sparks fly!
Put a self-taught amateur in with a well-schooled student and stick to facts--what do you get? The amateur has to either back down or start making stuff up!
sabastious

True believers are anti-intellectual
People who believe God is a lie are true believers just as much as any religious person. They too must suspend reason in order to assert that God never existed and never will.
-Sab
Band on the Run

Obama first came to national attention when he addressed the Democratic National Convention. His speech was so uplifting that I recall it clearly to this day. He argued that progressive Christians should not sit back and let right wing Fundies usurp Christ for themselves. The civil rights movement almost completely grew out of the Southern black church.
Mainstream Christians make certain that they are not tacky. It is a concern that the Fundies do not have.
Almost everyone here is on a different point in their journeys. Frankly, the 617 date, whatever it is, is so far from my concerns. If I were still a Witness, though, I can see how arguments could make me aware that the WT is not the sole agent for truth.
I don't how I can endure another personal revelation/atheist thread. Battlelines are being drawn. People are not conversing.
One thing annoys me is that I can read and study scads of books on the Bible, download academic journals, engage in sophsiticated Bible studies, etc. How do you respond to someone who hears voices? You can't.
Terry

True believers are anti-intellectual
People who believe God is a lie are true believers just as much as any religious person. They too must suspend reason in order to assert that God never existed and never will.
-Sab
Sab--while I think I understand the point you are making I might want to say the following. To "believe God is a lie" is a matter of considering soberly what has been
said to represent such a God. In which case, rejecting the argument on the basis of "no proof" might well be prudent and rational.
Skepticism about the supernatural seems reasonable to me. Why doesn't it seem that way to you, if I may ask?
I cannot assert that God does not exist. In fact, I won't. Why? I only know the arguments and not the God. I'm agnostic and that describes a state of NOT knowing rather than asserting that I DO know. That is a distinction with a difference in my world.
Arguments over fact are intellectual. Arguments over God are anti-intellectual because it is a separate magesterium. Faith is used and not reason.
sabastious

Terry, people who speak for God can be examined and found wanting. If such occurs they can safely be called false religious people. This doesn't reflect on God, but the people who falsely claimed to speak for him.
Think about a slot machine scam which works based off user ignorance (like false religion). If the user understands that the 11th pull isn't at all related to the first 10 they will leave relatively unscathed. However if they lack understanding they might falsely reason that 10 pulls without a winner increases the probability of the 11th being the winner. Which would mean that 100 non-winners is better than 10 non-winners. When in reality the winner in that case is the house and another victim or their own ignorance has been decieved and cash was pocketed.
It's similar to when a scholar studies the words of alleged prophets of God. If they find 10 to be fraudulent, that doesn't affect the data of the 11th religion in line, or even a new idea of the 1st. It is what it is and may be correct. Logically, they all require 100% study or else you will not be able to determine whether there is a correct religion, or religions. This is the reason why so many atheists are learned in theology. Because they need to cover their tracks if they want to be able to speak with authority on the subject.
Your assertion that true believers are anti-intellectual is a highly flawed notion. It's quite the opposite, actually. True believers drown themselves in academic information and intellectual thought because they never give up on the idea that God exists.
Because we simply do not have the data to assert all religions false we must continue to fervently collect information and data and consult every differing view possible. Without the interent this was an impossible feat, it no longer is.
Skepticism about the supernatural seems reasonable to me. Why doesn't it seem that way to you, if I may ask?
We needn't be concerned with the supernatural by itself, only how it interfaces with the natural.
I cannot assert that God does not exist. In fact, I won't. Why? I only know the arguments and not the God. I'm agnostic and that describes a state of NOT knowing rather than asserting that I DO know. That is a distinction with a difference in my world.
You seem to believe "religion is the opiate of the people." You have claimed several times that God is a construct of the human mind specifically evolved to tackle fear of death, no?
-Sab
Vanderhoven7

True, the Bible is not theology. Theology is the Bible refracted through the mind of man. Fortunately, we are not saved by theology. We are saved by Jesus Christ and His work (passion, death and resurrection) on our behalf.
Terry

And I say this does not need proving.
Numinous "truth" is revealed or it isn't. Convincing somebody through intellect is a war of egos and wits.
Why turn study of scripture (as Russell did) into an encylopedia of "subjects"?
Why create (as Fred Franz did) a chronology chart and predict Armageddon?
What is the point of it? None.
A dog chases cars. It is the dog's nature.
Amateur Bible auto-didacts cannot help but chase after elusive so-called "knowledge'. Why? It flexes their mania.
sabastious

Why turn study of scripture (as Russell did) into an encylopedia of "subjects"?
Scripture is one way that God reveals himself into the world. Through prophets and their writings. The counter to that is to throw a bunch of false prophets into the mix to muddy the waters. That describes to a tee the canvas of both the ancient and modern world. Most prophets can be found wanting, but are there real ones? If so, they are most certainly needles in a haystack. Like I said, now that we have the interent we don't need to be just one person rummaging through the Scriptures and history. We no longer need cults or cult leaders to continue the flow of information. We have a more efficient method now. We can have astronomical amounts of people working in unison, it's a different world now, Terry it's high time to get used to it. These types of arguments you are using are archaic and don't take into account modern thought and technology that made that new thought even possible.
Why create (as Fred Franz did) a chronology chart and predict Armageddon?
Why try to predict the weather? Same question.
What is the point of it? None.
Maybe not to you, but to the millions of people who are grouping up on the internet to solve the worlds problems not only have a point, they have a destiny.
A dog chases cars. It is the dog's nature.
Yes, and The Book of Jude says to work against our nature because it's bad for us. Like a dog chasing a car, we should stop doing that. We are not animals, we are children of the One True God.
Amateur Bible auto-didacts cannot help but chase after elusive so-called "knowledge'.
Except when you have a technology that can combine them all into a workable result. Then what always appeared as incoherence and unprovable theory suddenly becomes sensible. Just like how eventually people will not question the existence of Bigfoot. We need to GLOBALLY unite before certain truths can become fully manifest. God is one of those truths.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W6as8oVcuM
-Sab

The stench of Amateur Bible auto-didacts!

Share this