AWatcher, you have not reconciled the dilemma that the whole description of the 144,000 is figurative, yet you insist the actual number is literal.
Am I alone in finding I mentally glaze over when I read posts like that of templijah above?
When I read things like "Bridal number" and "Christ's poly-kingship God appointed agency" my brain short-circuits.
To some including me now, the bible is a collection of fables and other assorted miscellaneous bumpf. It's interesting to read as litrature but is about as inspired as my back foot.
If you take it as the inerrant word of God then this is your choice. Having been raised a JW I won't get fooled again.
Revalations looks to me like a drug induced ramble. John, pissed up on Patmos!
With respect to my Xtian friends.............You can interpret what you want from it.
Right on Mr Punk sir ! add to what you have said the point that we do not have original copies of Revelation, or any Bible book, so we cannot know what was originally written by the writer if you do happen to believe he was inspired.
So, how on earth could an interpretation be anything but a guess look at the tosh surrounding 666 in Revelation, and yet a very early manuscript has 616 there, so what price interpretation ?
Phizzy - Agreed totally 100%
616 to 666 Hmmmmmmmmm! Now that's what I call 'new light'(TM)
I think it's reasonable to conclude that the original scriptures could have been tampered with just as the NWT was tampered with by the WBT$ to prop up their money making BS!
honeybucket: sorry, you misread my short hand. what I read is: the 12 tribes are all christians, the Israel of God. - Since Pentecost up to the great tabulation, angels seal 144 000 out of all christians. its easy, its the martyrs, stephen, paul etal.- They join Christ in heaven PRIOR to the great tribulation , . -The great crowd are all christians that live in the aftermath of that biggest disaster ever, --- There are none of the 144 000 among the great crowd, not even temporarily.
the "chosen ones" of Math 24:22 are not the remnant but are described in Isaih 65. ----ALL this of course, IF THE WHOLE BIBLE STORY IS NOT MADE UP.--
where WT fails,- is to identify the 12 tribes as ALL Christians, All called ones, and wt is wrong in saying that the"chosen ones " are the "anointed".
Some preachers like Popoff cook stuff up about exclusiveness to draw people to
their collection plate or buy their literature. The current JWs leaders
claim to being God's special spokespeople of a literal 144,00 goes back to
Russell in the 1880's. Exclusive claims/relatively exclusive claims distinc-
tively taught about what the Bible requires are contrived to affect that.
JWs who are outspoken about persistent disagreement with one of those policies
or claims is disfellowshipped to prevent them from spreading their research
findings among the paying customers.
Greetings and welcome !
Rev 7 and 14 are different views of the same scene. Rev. has repetitive cycles, however, thats another topic.
Israel was intended to be a blessing to the gentiles. This highly symbolic and JEWISH literature was addressed to mostly Jewish Christians who were being persecuted and killed. This is very encouring to the seven churches as they see that they are the spiritual Israel of God at from their "Great Tribulation" they would be that New Jerusalem "living stones" as seen in the very Jewish building in the rest of revelation that would be first born assembly enrolled in the heavens as the New Heavens....read the book of Hebrews.
The literal temple was destroyed in 70AD, they are the New Creation. this occured IMHO shorty after or at 70AD, and the spiritual blessings to the gentile world has continued ever since, through Christ as the only mediator.
Conclusion: the symbolic 144K fullfill the promise to Israel as being a kingdom of kings and priests, they are the first century Christians alive in glory in the heavens now as the first resurrection, Rev. 20:1-6, and are awaiting the final destruction of evil when this mortal creation is swolled up by immortality. rev.20:7-15
sorry, yes the JWs teach it a literal number, and ONLY consists of Christians from penticost to 1935, thats when the door was closing to the 144K. All others are NOT anointed, that means NOT Christian....the remaining 144K were gathered in 1914 as Christ started to rule over the earth. ...The FINAL end would come within the generation that seen and understood the events in 1914.......however as others have said above SUBJECT TO CHANGE.
sorry, yes the JWs teach it a literal number, and ONLY consists of Christians from penticost to 1935, thats when the door was closing to the 144K.
However the May 1, 2007 WT explained that the 1935 date is no longer valid, there is no closing date:-
However, the number of genuine anointed ones who have become unfaithful is likely not large. On the other hand, as time has gone by, some Christians baptized after 1935 have had witness borne to them that they have the heavenly hope. (Romans 8:16, 17) Thus, it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends.
This change probably inspired by the annual increase in the number of partakers. It will be interesting to see if the number is actually reported this year.