OK, spill the beans, which one of us wrote into Biblical Archaeology Review this month about the pronunciation of YHWH?

by dropoffyourkeylee 21 Replies latest jw friends

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  dropoffyourkeylee

  Here's the subject:

  The "Q&C" Questions and Comments section of the journal 'Biblical Archaeology Review' (one of my favorite magazines), Jan/Feb 2013 , p. 68, someone from Illinois wrote the following question:

  Quote: "We've often heard that 'Jehovah' is an amalgamation of the unpronounced Tetragrammaton (YHWH) and, when spoken, is pronounced "Lord" (Adonai). Dd this start as a rabbinic practice? Would Jews of the first century, including Jesus and his followers, have avoided saying YHWH out loud? Can you explain this?"

  OK, fess up! Only an Ex-JW would write this using this wording! Who was it?
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  Satanus

  Those damm postates.

  S
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  dropoffyourkeylee

  OK no reponses besides Satan (thanks Bro)

  Here is the last paragraph of the 4 paragraph response from the 'BAR' writer Jeffrey Tigay, Prof of Hebrew and Semitic Languages ... at Univ of Pennsylvania:

  "We can't pinpoint exactly when Adonai came to be the preferred substitute, but it is likely that Jews of the first century, including Jesus and his followers, did use this or another substitute."

  translation: Tigay is saying that Jesus did NOT say YHWH, Yahweh, or any equivalent, but used the words that were substituted, like Adonai

  Thank you , Jeff Tigay!
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  prologos

  yes, adonai, and in his last words of prayer he used "Eli". to me, should it suspiciously sound as a dialect form, related to Allah. meaning GOD ?.
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  Phizzy

  Not an argument that can be resolved I fear, but whoever it was that raised the question, and thus elicited a response from a respected scholar;

  Thank You !

  I have long felt in my gut that the uttering of YHWH had long ceased by the 1st Century, apart from its use by some in magic, and maybe by the High Priest, in the presence of no one else.

  What amuses me is that JW's make such a virtue of using the name, which they pronounce jehovah, which bears scant resemblance to any of the possible pronunciations,( they might just as well enunciate "Noblob" or somesuch), and they miss the point of why the jewish folk do not use the name, and why educated Christians do not.

  Educated Christians , when they speak of "God" are referring in their mind to the Eternal One, the Supreme being who has always existed, and they know that YHWH is an upstart new-comer in the god game, only arising amongst the desert tribes around 2000BC, and then as a minor god, who was married, the predecessor El was a greater god.

  When you look at places of worship like Gobbekli Tepe, 11,600BC, you realise how "young" (newly invented) YHWH is.
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  Chariklo

  This is really interesting.

  So this would explain why the name Jehovah is omitted from other Bible translations, even the newest version of the Jerusalem Bible?

  I'm particularly interested in the distinction you make between God and Jehovah. Is this really the case? It would be good to get further input, with references here. Leolaia, maybe? Anyone?
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  Phizzy

  Dear Char, Here is Leo's post 600 on the god El:

  "El was the chief god of the Canaanite pantheon; YHWH emerges as a son/challenger in Hebrew mythology of the Late Bronze Age so, yes, originally they were separate gods entirely. Remnants of these roles can still be identified in certain parts of the OT, and I should be able to point you to a few verses but I don't have a Bible with me at the moment.

  Much of the storm god imagery used of El was gradually subsumed into the image of YHWH as Israelite monoltry progressed until finally the two entities were absorbed into YHWH alone, around the time of the monarchy (though I may be off on the timing there). Richard Friedman in The Hidden Book in the Bible aptly demonstrates the two separate lines of OT narration, complete with parallel creation, flood and Abrahamic stories, one of which used the name of YHWH ("J") and one that used simply El or Adonai ("P"). In the "P" version, YHWH does not emerge as a fully-recognized entity until his name is revealed to Moses at the occasion of the burning bush and only then and thereafter is it uttered by Biblical characters."
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  Phizzy

  Another gem from Leo, I don't know what post it was though, but she is musing on the possible origin of YHWH and its introduction to the the religion of Israel :

  " What is especially interesting about the Edomite connection is that it is in Edom where a form of Yahweh first turns up; a fourteenth century BC toponym list of Amenhotep III refers to "Yhw in the land of the Shasu" near "Seir in the land of Shasu". And the Shasu during the New Kingdom also frequently entered Egypt for various reasons; one twelfth century BC text refers to the "Shasu of Edom" who were permitted to water their herds in the "waters of Pithom" (Papyrus Anastasi VI 55-56). "
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  Room 215

  The very name is a vestige of the Hebrew god's progression from polytheism to monolatry, and finally, to monotheism....
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  Phizzy

  Exactly Roomy, and monotheism being pretty late. 6th Cent BC ???

  We have to remember we only get the stories from the educated/literate, city dwelling priestly class, the Am-haarets of the rural scene were popping up to High Places to worship their Gods until very late. But we have no written record of their views/beliefs , not in the Bible anyway.