The SIN that is UNforgiven a contrast between Christianity and Judaism

by Terry 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    God's grace is about His forgiveness of Our sins AGAINST Him, not one another.

    A sin against another is a sin against God as well, though, dear P (the greatest of love and peace to you, my dear brother!). When we ask "forgive us our trespasses/debts as we forgive others..." we are not delineating WHICH trespasses. So, for example, the sin of, say, coveting one's neighbor's wife was a sin against one's neighbor... AS WELL AS a sin against God. Because it is a violation of His Law. Which was the purpose OF the Law: to make sin "manifest." At the time, Israel no longer KNEW what it meant to sin against a brother. And so the Law had to be put in writing... and "weighted" by constituting things as sins against God, as well.

    Which is the point of offering up sacrifices (today, prayer): we should ask for forgiveness from BOTH - personally, from the human we sinned against, as well as God. The human first, though, in order to render our sacrifice (prayer) to GOD acceptable. This is one of the reasons Cain's sacrifice was "unacceptable" - he had unresolved problems with his brother.

    And it is why my Lord instituted washing one another's feet (John 13:4-17): can you truly engage in that, wash another's feet... or have them wash yours... while holding something against them/knowing they hold something against you? If you don't know, I encourage you to try it. And trust me, it's easier to wash another's feet than to have one's feet washed by another. At least it is for me. Because it reminds me that I am the SERVANT in the relationship and not the other way around. If I am the servant... then how can I hold something against the one whose feet I am washing? What would be the POINT? It would be just another ritual, would it not... rather than a meaningful expression of love, forgiveness, and servitude? Rather, it helps one TO forgive, whether washing or being washed... particularly when one might be having difficulty doing so.

    The sin humans are "born with" is an offense against Jehovah? How so?

    The sin we are BORN with is NOT an offense to/against JAH, dear Terry - it is inherited from our parents, theirs from their parents, etc., all the way back to Adham by means of our physical bodies. It is sin IN THE FLESH... aging, sickness, disease, deformities, etc.,... which none of us can do anything about (notwithstanding modern medicine's corrective intervention AFTER the vessel has been formed). It is the result of the imperfect (sinFUL - Romans 8:3) "vessel" that is the body of flesh. There is "sin" (imperfection, hence, sickness, death, deformities, etc.) in our DNA... in the very VESSEL... which we pass on to our progeny.

    Sin "against" JAH has to do with sin of the SPIRIT, sin we CHOOSE. Which is why "holy spirit" is spoken of in two "cleansing" forms: "water" (so as to cleanse the flesh)... and "fire" (so as to cleanse the SPIRIT).

    Humanity is regarded as "dust on the scales", "wretched", and other synonymous terms of contempt by the Lord of Hosts as a generic default description.

    You are taking man's translations/transliterations of words... and their meanings... and applying them to the Most Holy One of Israel. Is that fair... or even accurate? David said that he knew man was only dust... and given the vastness of the physical universe, indeed, our own galaxy... solar system... planet... AND the "mark" most men do NOT leave on ANY of it... we really are just dust. We come... and go... the lion's share of us usually forgotten within a generation. Many people have already died today. Do any of us here know who they are? Do we truly CARE? Of course, their loved onces care... if they HAVE loved ones - many do not. Many die in the streets, in war, in hospitals, etc., and are just gone. Without anyone else even knowing (except maybe those who pronounced them dead/prep'd their bodies for burial/cremation). They came from dust... they return to dust... and no one misses them.

    David was the king of a well-known nation, a formidable foe, whose memory exists even down to today. Yet, he understood his own significance (or insignificance) in relation to the entire creation. Now some might argue against that, call it self-deprecating. But I've seen even non-believers post as to this truth, that we live and then die and there is "nothing more" after. If that is TRUE... then we truly ARE nothing more than dust, truly have NO significance other than to those whom we might have affected... and who might have loved/regarded us... during our brief time here.

    Yet, these scurrilous scoundrels are expected to treat one another as though they possessed opposite qualities!

    But we DO! We can CHOOSE how to treat others. Even beasts choose. But we can choose much further than them. For instance, we can CHOOSE not to eat... for whatever reason. Beasts, notwithstanding illness... or depression... can't. So long as it is happy and healthy, it will eat.

    How is a vulgar and doomed animal creature with sentient awareness supposed to surmount the enmity between themselves and the Almighty?

    Through the means that One provided, dear one: His Son. The problem is that many... most... DON'T ACCEPT that means. They don't WANT that to be the provision. They want something ELSE, whatever else THEY believe is best, adequate, sufficient... "okay." And so they get "mad" at the Most Holy One of Israel, even accusing Him of not MAKING such a provision. When He certainly did. "Well, I don't like/agree with/believe in that provision," one might say. So, okay. That is such one's CHOICE. But is one truly "right" when one rejects a provision made for them because it's not what THEY want as a provision?

    If your boss says to you, "The employee break room is through that door there, Ter," but YOU decide you don't want to use that door... can you truly get mad at your boss if you never find/enter the break room? Is it HIS fault that you never get to take a break away from your desk because you refuse to follow HIS instructions as to how to access the break room?

    What I'm saying is that man is trapped by human nature, yet, held to a higher standard.

    He is held to a higher standard than whom? Beasts? Shouldn't he be? Heck, he holds his fellowman to a higher standard, does he not? Sometimes one man to a higher standard than another! The Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, however, holds all men to the same standard. ONE standard: love. For Him, for oneself (by means of loving one's own flesh), for one's brothers, for one's neighbor, for a stranger, and even for one's enemies. That's it. That's the standard.

    You may as well expect to drop a stone from your hand and watch it rise into the sky!

    If you are unable to love... according to that "standard... yes, perhaps. BUT... for those who cannot (and so are "unrighteous"... even "sinners")... there is a RANSOM! I mean, I KNOW I can't live up to that standard. Hard and often as I try... I WILL fail. I WILL. Just some of the interchanges I have here evidence that. So I know I NEED help to "make" the standard. But help how and from where/whom? From that very Son, that Door... the "provision." One was able to not only live up to that standard for himself... but so PERFECTLY... that HIS efforts can be used to cover anyone ELSE'S efforts that fall short! For me, that means and includes ME! So... since my... ummmm... "account"... consistently stays in the "red"... I can receive "funds" from HIM... to make up MY deficit! For FREE! No cost to ME!

    Now, some might say, "Oh, no, it's not free - you have to DO stuff for it!" That's only partly true. It is free... because I cannot BUY it. No amount of silver or gold will allow me access to it. My PAYMENT, then... is my faith IN it... which I DEMONSTRATE... by (1) doing what the One who "pays" me directs me to do (partake of him, exercise faith in what he tells me, TRY to treat others AS he tells me, etc.); and (2) telling others ABOUT it! I mean, do I TRULY believe/have faith in it... in him... if I don't/won't/can't tell OTHERS about him and this wonderful gift??

    ANYONE who believes they've received a fine treasure... which they believe anyone else can, too... does not keep that "GOOD news" to themselves. It is only one who believes it is NOT available to all, but perhaps something to be hidden (vs. shared)... or who does not WANT it to be available to others (and where is the love in that?!)... who keeps it to himself/herself.

    We are birthed by our mother and dealt a genetic hand of cards that is a dead loser. Yet, we must play the hand.

    I find this statement very... "human." I have met people with all manner of infirmities (you do that in the low-income housing industry because many of these people are dependent upon that system)... from chronic to terminal illness, blindness, deaf, lame, mental challenges... what have you... and most of them (and their loved ones) would pity YOU. Most of them do not consider themselves "disabled" or "lesser" than any other "able-bodied" person... and are quite happy to just be ALIVE. They look at people who bemoan their little "aches and pains" and shake their heads. And they should. Because it's those who have the MOST who often commisurate the loudest.

    I recall an incident as a JW. The congregation PO and his wife had a daughter with Down's Syndrome. I was working with this woman in service (a kindly, but very aloof and a bit "holier-than-thou" Asian lady - with a husband who, OMG, "lorded it over" many in the congregation - he was a successful business man who employed MANY JW's in his janitorial business and often talked to congregation members as if they were all "beneath" him. He and his wife considered themselves the "standard" as to JWs. I think he's a DO now...). Anyway, she asked to work in FS with me that day (man, was I surprised! She had barely ever spoken to me in, say 3 years!) and so we were going from door to door and she began lamenting over her daughter. By her words I could tell that she was hugely embarassed about her child... concerned about what other JWs thought... and even fearful as to how her dear daughter would fare once she became a pre-teen/teenager. I then discerned that she wanted to share her feelings about it with ME... because of MY daughter (baptized young, on several DC programs, "headed for Bethel", etc.). I could feel this woman's "pain"... and discerned that she wanted to kind of know "how I did it" (raised a daughter like mine). But I got a bit ticked at her. I thought, "How can she feel that way about her own child?!!"

    And so I said a quick prayer as to what I could tell her... without outrightly offending her (I was just as forthright then as I am now) because she was starting to make me very angry. I wanted to tell her that I was appalled at her perception of her own child. But... I didn't want to offend her. And then I heard something to the effect of this and said it to her:

    "Actually, dear sister, I think you have been given a blessing that perhaps you can't see or appreciate." She was surprised and taken aback (I was, too, actually, but continued):

    "When most of us mothers are worrying about our daughters perhaps getting caught up with the wrong crowd, maybe even boys, dating, perhaps even marrying the wrong husband... like some of US have... you won't have such things to worry about, at least not to the same extent. While it may be true that your dear daughter will miss out on some things the others girls don't, I'm not sure that that's such a bad thing. Perhaps she will dodge some of the bullets and controversies the rest of our daughters won't be able to avoid. Maybe our daughters will rebel and leave home when we don't want them to. Get pregnant before marriage. All manner of things that you most probably won't have to worry about with YOUR daughter. So, you can look at it like, 'Why did Jehovah give us THIS child?!'... or you can look at it like "THANK you, Jehovah, for giving us THIS child!"

    I literally saw the light go on in that woman's [formerly empty, IMHO] head! She responded: "Oh, my, I NEVER thought of it like that!!" Of course, she hadn't. She was more worried about what other JWs (and her husband) thought of this... "imperfect"... child... than she allowed herself to think of the child. I just could NOT fathom that!! In MY mind and heart it was her very JOB to consider this [particular] child... above ALL else, given the child's challenges! It was HER job to make that child feel loved and welcomed... into the world AND into that congregation. But she was SO caught up in what was "wrong" with her child, she could not allow herself to see that, really, NOTHING was "wrong" with that child.

    And I say the same to you, dear Terry... because as I've shared here before many... many... many times, we are NOT our physical vessels but the essence of life WITHIN those vessels. The body is merely a temporary "cup." Sure, that cup/vessel presents some challenges, some of which are insurmountable (chronic pain, terminal illness, etc.). But they are not US. We are SO much more than our bodies, the "soiled outer garment."

    We bet against death and God always wins.

    No, dear one - for now it is Death... the this world which belongs to that one... and HIS "ruler"... that wins. But my Lord stated:

    "In the WORLD you are having tribulation; take COURAGE... I have CONQUERED the world."

    He conquered the world... by conquering DEATH. The only SURE way, then, to win a bet against Death... is to place our "money"... on Christ. In this way, while your body, the vessel of flesh that holds sin and death IN it, may die... your SPIRIT can be "preserved alive"... waiting for the time when it will be given a NEW vessel, and NEW "outer garment"... the WHITE "robe"... the incorruptible spirit body... which has NO sin... OR death... in IT. But only that One can give you such a vessel... "robe."

    If the Lord stops cheating we win. What kind of game is that?

    I think, dear one, that perhaps you think the "game" is roulette... when it's actually more like "Old Maid."

    I hope this helps and, again, peace to you, both. Truly.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • tec
    tec

    It is about hypocrisy, Terry.

    Judge, and be judged.

    Forgive, and be forgiven.

    By the measure you use, it will be used against you.

    Which is why it is our own deeds and words that will and do judge us... not Christ.

    If you will not forgive someone who wrongs you... then how can you expect to be forgiven?

    There is your justice, Terry.

    Peace to you,

    tammy (who apologizes if I did not stick to the OP precisely, will go back and read again)

  • Terry
    Terry

    So, is holy spirit actually THE Holy Spirit?

    And what pre-eminence can a co-equal person have so that the "sin against the holy spirit" is not a sin against---say--the Son?

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    So, is holy spirit actually THE Holy Spirit?

    No, dear Terry (again, peace to you!). "Holy spirit" is the life essence of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. He is a spirit... and holy... and so the life... spirit... that comes from Him... in the form of His breath, blood, and seed... is spirit that is holy. Holy spirit. In contrast, the [Holy] Spirit that is His Son (The Holy Spirit)... the glorified Christ... the HOLY One of Israel... who, like his Father... is a spirit, and since his glorification... holy. He is the Spirit... glorified and so now "holy." The [Holy] Spirit.

    The problem arose when those who undertook to translate/transliterate the Writings (particularly the Greek NT)... took it upon themselves to decide which incidences of the words "holy" and "spirit" were to be capitalized. Rather than inquiring of the Holy Spirit (Christ), so as to be led by God's holy spirit (which that Son dispenses)... they pick and chose as their own understanding "led" them to do. Unfortunately, their OWN understanding was flawed. In some cases, their intent was flawed, as well.

    And what pre-eminence can a co-equal person have so that the "sin against the holy spirit" is not a sin against---say--the Son?

    You misunderstand: it was permissible to /speak against the Son of Man, Christ, while he still was in the flesh (and thus, still a son of Adham, earthling man); however, once he became the glorified Holy Spirit, things changed. In that now one would be sinning against holy spirit... the very breath, blood, and seed of God... and thus against God Himself.

    My Lord offers the following:

    While merely a man many atrocities were committed/spoken against Joseph, the son of Jacob; once installed as second in command toPharaoh, and thus his co-ruler, however... folks had better think twice about committing/speaking wrong of Joseph, now known as "Zaphenath-paneah" (which has been translated to mean things like "revealer of secrets/hidden things," “the one who furnishes the nourishment of life," “healer of the world,” “The one who knows all things," "sustainer of life," and even "savior-of-the-world/land”; or “sustainer of life” - but in any case, that throughJoseph...life [in Egypt] was preserved). To take a hit at Joseph, then, was to take a direct hit at Pharaoh.

    So, I guess we could assume that one could expect to lose one's life in such case, I would think. Apparently, the same thing as to Christ, as the Son of Man... and Christ... as the glorified Holy Spirit of God.

    I hope this helps, dear Terry... truly.

    Again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

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