The SIN that is UNforgiven a contrast between Christianity and Judaism

by Terry 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry

    It is little understood by Christians what a difference there is between themselves and Judaism especially on the matter of whom God forgives and why.

    A Christian expects to sin against many people in the course of their life, but proudly boasts that they aren't "perfect just forgiven." This is wrong by Judaism's ethical, moral and theologic standards.

    Let me explain why.

    In Judaism; only the person you sin against can forgive you!

    If you steal from Bob; only Bob (the injured party) can forgive you. Or, not.

    You cannot cut Bob out of the picture and go over his head, so to speak, and get your invisible buddy in the sky, God, to forgive ON BEHALF of Bob.

    No, according to Judaism, the wronged party holds the key to your forgiveness and your obligation is to him.

    The law of the Talon was a law of Justice because of the balance between the injury and the restoring of the injured party to equity. Fairness was key.

    There was a system of fines, service and payback that would compensate a victim fairly.

    In Christianity it is less clear and more murky.

    You can steal, fornicate, lie, cheat and commit mayhem and then turn to God and be forgiven by displaying a penitent heart. Even so late as on your deathbed in many cases. Yet, the people who you took from, injured, belittled, wronged and destroyed have no say in this transaction! The suffer the wrongs and God makes it even-steven on the scale of justice!

    In Judaism murder is the unforgiveable sin. Why? Because the injured party NO LONGER EXISTS in order to forgive you!

    This is the mis-step in Christian theology as it exists today and has long been taught. The victim is a mere nothing and the welfare of the wrongdoer is more important to God!

    Christian Justice is not well thought out by any stretch of the imagination.

    For example, kindness which is NOT DESERVED (grace) is given, so it is taught, by God. The undeserving recipient gets the boon of grace without earning it, meriting it in any way or making restitution to the victims of his sins.

    On what basis can this be called Justice? Why, none at all! It is a kind of inert magic trick. Do your wrongs, then; utter the magic words and all is forgiven!

    Isn't it apparent that the justice of Judaism is more ethical than that of Christianity because of the balance of fairness as regards victims?

    Not one person in 100 can tell you what the sin against the Holy Spirit is or even WHY it exists.

    But, the unforgiveable sin in Judaism makes perfect sense.

    I'm asking you to consider that Christianity is supposedly an improvement on Judaism; a more perfect realization of God's dealings with mankind and yet--makes no sense whatsoever in terms of equity, balance, fairness or goodness.

    Judaism had to be practical because people were living close together in daily contact ethnically, nationally and religiously bonded by a common purpose. If the law did not solve daily problems and absolve the very practical nature of who is injured and who feels guilty it would have resulted in anarchy.

    That the Jews survived as long as they did is a reflection of how well their sense of law, fairness, god, sin and forgiveness worked for them.

    LUKE 5:

    18Some men came carrying a paralytic on a mat and tried to take him into the house to lay him before Jesus. 19When they could not find a way to do this because of the crowd, they went up on the roof and lowered him on his mat through the tiles into the middle of the crowd, right in front of Jesus.

    20When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

    21The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

    Then why did the Pharisses say to Jesus that only God can forgive sins?

    Let us look at the situation and the context.

    1.It was believed that physical infirmity (deformity) was caused by either a man's sins or his parents' sins.

    2. A crippled man was brought to Jesus for healing under this premise.

    3.Jesus granted the man forgiveness for that particularity of view.

    4.The Pharisees saw that context. It would only be God's authority to forgive an "inherited" sin. They corrected Jesus by this understanding.

    5. Jesus demonstrated that he could also HEAL the infirmity indicating a greater source authority than the Pharisees themselves.

    14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.(Matt. 6)

    Matthew 6:18 and the like rather make the point, at least on a superficial interpersonal level, as they actually require the victim to forgive the offender in order to be forgiven in turn. From a purely ethical standpoint this is scandalous, of course.

    18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

    Another way to put it is that Judaism and Christianity have a lot of common as well as mutual contradictions

    When we reduce "the essence of Christianity" to the pet teachings of one of its particular brands (e.g., popular American Protestantism) we tend to oversimplify and impoverish it dramatically. If all it is about is "salvation by grace through Jesus' sacrifice for our sins" then much of the NT sounds strangely "non-Christian". But it is only an optical illusion imo.

    Just a side thought: I find it interesting that Paul in his generally-aknowledged "authentic" epistles avoids the notion of forgiveness of sins at a theological level (the verb aphiemi in this sense and context only appears in a quotation, Romans 4:7 -- this is, not Paul's own word but the LXX Psalter's) and rather uses the totally different concept of justification, i.e., a legal metaphor which is used in a "transindividual" way. Strictly the sinner is not "forgiven," he becomes (or rather is revealed as) someone else, i.e, righteous, "in Christ". The notion of "forgiveness of sins" comes up only in Colossians-Ephesians, which make up a different stage of thought and are commonly regarded as post-Pauline.

    Judaism was shaped by opposing forces, surely and Christianity as well. So many opinions, theories and orthodoxies hung upon so unsteady a peg!

    Christianity, it would appear, is a kind of hallucination brought on by whatever the individual was sniffing, imbibing, injecting or dreaming, yet; everybody seemed to rely on the misnomer/concept CHRISTIANITY as though they were all on the same page somehow.

    As a Jehovah's Witness it seemed so clear cut and transparent because so much information about sources was kept invisible and no outside "authority" was tolerated. Moreover, so much of door-to-door rebuttal was so toothless and ill-informed it was easy to maintain the illusion that we JW's actually knew so much more!

    Comments?

  • designs
    designs

    You've got to hand it to Paul and his cohorts, they made it sound so 'Jewish' to the non-Jewish audience and then you peel back the onion one layer and voila!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    More about Jewish thought about repentance and forgiveness.

    http://www.js.emory.edu/BLUMENTHAL/Repentance.html

    Request for forgiveness has to go to the wronged party. There must be recognition of the sin, remorse, desisting from sin, restitution, and confession.

    Under these rules, a murderer cannot be forgiven because the wronged party is no longer available to make restitution.

    Our current justice system, by the way, works on the principle that the criminal act is against the government (here in Canada, against the "Crown"). Perhaps this is a holdover from the Christian concept that sins are against God. The concept of victims services and restitution is an add-on and not directly connected to the justice system.

    Perhaps this is why, even after justice is meted out, victims may feel left out.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    This is only accurate as to "christianity", dear Terry (peace to you!), but not as to christians. Indeed, "christianity" may teach that one only needs to seek forgiveness from God/Christ, but Christ didn't teach that. To the contrary, he taught that you MUST seek forgiveness from the one you've sinned against (if at all possible) BEFORE you even try to approach God for forgiveness:

    "If you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift." Matthew 5:23, 24

    Of course, you don't have to wait until you're at the altar offering your gift; same applies if you know/remember BEFORE going to make your offering (prayer).

    What, though, if your brother won't... or can't (because he is now deceased or you are unable to contact him)... become reconciled? For his part, that he didn't/won't is between him and God. For YOUR part, however, you can seek and obtain forgiveness from God on the basis of the blood of Christ (and He will grant it, on the basis of that blood) because He has so promised (on that basis). Two things, though: your brother, who refused to reconcile his difference with YOU... if still alive... should take care that HE does not transgress against anyone himself. And YOU, relying on the forgiveness of God, by means of Christ's blood... should take care that YOU forgive not only ALL who ask such of YOU... but anyone who transgresses AGAINST you ("forgive us OUR trespasses AS we forgive those who trespass against US").

    Otherwise, you are both putting yourselves to receive judgment... by means of the same judgment with which YOU are judging.

    That is why being "clean" when one partakes of the flesh and blood of Christ is important: so that one does not eat/drink judgement "against" oneself.

    I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    NOt sure what you guys are talking about in regards to "unforgivabel sin", there is no such thing in Judaisim.

    Every Sin Pardonable.

    Jewish theology does not admit that there is an unpardonable sin. The Mishnah says that sins are expiated (1) by sacrifice, (2) by repentance at death or on Yom Kippur, (3) in the case of the lighter transgressions of the positive or negative precepts, by repentance at any time. If one persists in sinning, depending upon receiving pardon through subsequent repentance, e.g., at Yom Kippur, his sins are not forgiven. At Yom Kippur, only sins between man and God, not sins between man and his neighbor, are expiated (Yoma viii. 8, 9). The graver sins, according to Rabbi, are apostasy, heretical interpretation of the Torah, and non-circumcision (Yoma 86a). The atonement for sins between a man and his neighbor is an ample apology (Yoma 85b; see Atonement). Repetition of the same sin may be forgiven once, twice, or even thrice, but not a fourth time: "For three transgressions of Moab [I will forgive], and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof" (Amos ii. 1); "Lo, all these things worketh God oftentimes [Hebr. "twice and three times"] with man, to bring back his soul from the pit" (Job xxxiii. 29, 30; Yoma 86b).

    There are also lighter sins that are not punishable, but nevertheless stain the character of the most pious and righteous man; for instance, the sin of not pleading for mercy for a neighbor, if in position to do so; as Samuel said, "God forbid that I should sin against the Lord in ceasing to pray for you" (I Sam. xii. 23; Ber. 12b). The Nazarite committed a sin in avoiding the moderate use of wine; the learned man sins by fasting instead of studying (Ta'an. 11b). Small sins are generally overlooked in punishment: "I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men" (Zeph. i. 12): not by day-light, nor with the torch, but with candles, so as not to detect venial sins (Pes. 7b). R. Simeon b. La?ish, however, cites "The iniquity of my heels shall compass me about" (Ps. xlix. 5) to prove that even "small sins that man tramples with his heels will surround him on the day of judgment" ('Ab. Zarah 18a). "Be heedful of a light precept as of a grave one" (Ab. ii. 1). Ben 'Azzai said, "Run to do even a slight precept, and flee from [even a slight] transgression" (Ab. iv. 2). Sometimes one may be justified in committing in private a sin that would, if committed in public, expose the name of God to disgrace ("?illul ha-shem"; ?id. 40a).

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    What Constitutes Sin.

    The earliest Biblical conception of what constituted sin is illustrated by the story of Adam's punishment, which was due to his failure to obey the divine will and his revolt against the divine government. The catastrophe of the Flood was a punishment for man's demoralization and corruption, his violence and immorality (see Gen. vi. 11, 12). The builders of the Tower of Babel revolted against divine government, and were dispersed (see Gen. xi. 1-9). Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for their heinous crimes: "The men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly" (Gen. xiii. 13): they were "wicked" in civil matters, "sinners" in blasphemy "exceedingly," with full appreciation of the enormity of their sins (Sanh. 109a). The Egyptians were punished for the sin of enslaving the Israelites, and for not heeding the command of God to release them. The most serious sin of the Israelites was the worship of the golden calf, contrary to God's commandments delivered from Sinai. Korah rebelled against the authority of Moses, and of the Levites, priests by the choice of God. The Canaanites practised incest and immorality: "For they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them" (Lev. xx. 23); "But for the wickedness of these nations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee" (Dout. ix. 5).

    The principal sins for which the Israelites forfeitedtheir national existence were idolatry, immorality, judicial corruption and deception (comp. Isa. i. 21-23), desecration of the Sabbath (comp. Jer. xvii. 21-27), and non-observance of the law relating to the release of servants after six years' service (comp. Jer. xxxiv. 16); citing "Arise ye and depart; for this is not your rest: because it is polluted, it shall destroy you" (Micah ii. 10), the Midrash says, "God would not have hastened the destruction of Jerusalem for any transgression other than fornication." The Ten Tribes were exiled for the same cause (Num. R. ix. 4). The shedding of innocent blood was the cause of the destruction of the Temple (Shab. 33a); though other reasons are given in Shab. 119b.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Forgiveness:

    Forgiveness is one of the attributes ascribed to Yhwh: "to the Lord our God belong mercies and forgiveness" (Dan. ix. 9; comp. Ex. xxxiv. 6-7; Num. xiv. 18 et seq.; Ps. lxxxvi. 5; Jonah iv. 2). The condition essential to God's forgiveness of iniquity is, as the contexts of the passages indicated show, repentance on the part of the sinner for the offense committed. A further essential condition is the intention to avoid repetition of the offense. The fulfilment of these conditions restores the sinner to his right relation toward Yhwh. "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon" (Isa. lv. 7; comp. Amos v. 14; Jer. iii. 14 et seq.; Ezek. xviii. 21 et seq., xxxiii. 11-21; Hosea xiv. 1-4); "For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee" (Ps. lxxxvi. 5; comp. lxxviii. 38).

    Under the sacrificial system as found in Leviticus repentance and atonement are represented by the animal sacrifice which a priest offers for the sinner But the forgiveness to be attained through the sacrifice is only for sins committed unintentionally, and for ignorance that has caused ritual defilement. No sacrifice could atone for wilful offenses. "But he that sins knowingly . . . blasphemes Yhwh; he shall be cut off from among his people" (Num. xv. 30, Hebr.). The main passage referring to sin-offerings is found in Lev. iv.-v. 13 (comp. Num. xv. 22 et seq.). In the Prophets and Psalms repentance is wholly based upon change of heart. Forgiveness is a free act of God's mercy and grace (Micah vii. 18, 19; Ps. ciii. 3; comp. Jer. xxxi. 34; Ezek. xxxvi. 25 et seq.; Ecclus. [Sirach] xvii. 20 et seq., xviii. 11).

    The Bible, which regards all men as created in the image of God (Gen. i. 27) and makes holiness the corner-stone of its ethical teachings, warns against all manner of hatred and vengeance (Lev. xix. 2, 17, 18). This idea is also the basis of the Talmudic dictum, "For certain sins repentance gives a respite, and the Day of Atonement atones; but he who sins against his neighbor must first be reconciled to him" (Yoma 85b).

    Not only should one not harbor hatred and vengeance in his heart, but it is his duty to help his enemy, which certainly presupposes forgiveness of him (Ex. xxiii. 4, 5).

    In the Wisdom literature and the Talmud especially are found many beautiful teachings concerning the treatment of one's enemies (see Prov. xxv. 21; xxiv. 17, 29; Deut. xxxii. 35; Prov. xx. 22; Ecclus. [Sirach] xxviii. 1).

    "Be of the persecuted and not of the persecutors" (B. ?. 93b). "Who is strong? He who turns an enemy into a friend" (Ab. R. N. xxiii.). "If a friend be in need of your aid to unload a burden, and an enemy to help him load, assist first the enemy, that the desire for hatred may be stifled in you" (B. M. 32).

    There are many passages in Biblical and post-Biblical literature that promise special favor from God to him who is merciful and forgiving to his fellow men (see II Sam. xxii. 26; Ps. xviii. 25; see also Compassion). "He who has pity for men to him God will be merciful" Er. xvii. 72; comp. Yoma 23). "He who has mercy for his fellow men belongs to the descendants of Abraham" (Be?ah 32; comp. Ecclus. [Sirach] xxviii. 2).

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    In Christianity, Jesus teachings on forgiveness echos Judaisim of His time:

    21 “ (Z) You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘ (AA) You shall not commit murder ’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to (AB) the court.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before (AC) the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before (AD) the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the (AE) fiery hell. 23 Therefore if you are (AF) presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be (AG) reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. 25 (AH) Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I say to you, (AI) you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Blasphemy is something Jehovah forgave?

    Having other gods? Worshipping them?

    Is that true?

    God alone gives life. Even revenge or vengence belong to Him. The next of kin of a murder victim was legally permitted to hunt down the killer unless that perpetrator had self-imprisoned in the cities of refuge. How is a Perp "forgiven" if he is allowed to be hunted down and executed?

    (selichá) : Not reconciling with the offender or embracing them in their human weakness, yet, acknowledging their contrition and frailty empathetically.

    (kappará) :Regarding an offender as though they are no longer in need of purification. This can only be granted by God Himself. No human can purify an offender and make them pure ritually in the existential sense.

    (mechilá) : the offender no longer owes me anything. I make no claims against him. The crime remains while the debt is dissolved.

  • kepler
    kepler

    Terry, PSacramento,

    As interesting and detailed as this is, wonder if the discussion is about two moving targets? Is not "much of Mishrah" developed after the second destruction of the Temple? Could there have been cities of refuge throughout the period of Hebrew Scripture if centuries of the periods under discussion were under foreign rule? Subsequent to that there was a Diaspora that eventually had no center. I suspect that reconciliation with those with which one has quarreled or sinned has been a continued underlying principle, but could it have always been the same in scope for the last three millenia?

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