0) did God (the father) or its atheistic equivalent have a prehuman/preBigBang existence? and other TMELY questions.

by prologos 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • prologos
    prologos

    if you like to think of the BIG QUESTION and can imagine to remove one of the 3 similar space dimensions to put in TIME as a substitute, a picture should emerge that you can work with. SO:

    1)working into the past from the big bang creation or random event, (like in "100 ABB" or "-100 BB"} , as an atheist, was there a start- up vaccuum oscillation, the casimir effect gone viral,or similar random event , or

    2)as a non-atheist was there a Creator that had energy to spare to make matter? and if these scenerios are among the possibilties,

    1a)did these vaccuum events happen in time? accelerations without time? or for the Deiists:

    3)did the (eternal) God have "time on his hands"? 4) or did he exist without time? 5)if he existed in the eternal past, is he still there or 5a) has he left the past? 6) if he lives in the eternal future, is he already there?,or 6a) is he moving through time with us to get there? if that is so, 6b) does he exist in only half an eternity, the past' and is now off into the future? 6c) does it make sense to have half an eternity? so: 6d) is the future eternal time still empty? in other words: 7) does God move through time the way we do? if yes, 8) is he smaller than eternity in order to have room to move in eternal time? 8a) can he be eternal without filling eternal time? 8b) if only we (and creation) move through time and God does not, is'nt time static, unmoving? then: 9) what moves, we or time? 10) if times moves is there a steady supply of it coming out of the past or 10b) out of the future? or, 11) are we moving through the same static time that God is unmovably existng in? 12) If time is not moving and eternal, why could it not have been present before the universe started to accelerate out of the bb singularity? 13) did space and its material/enrgy content start making the move through eternal time at the bb? if not, 14) why are we always sense moving through time, even when not aware of moving with respect to space or at least some of its content? 15) if you could stick your arm out of our expanding universe into the unimaginable "void", would you feel or measure the expansion as movement in time? 16) is time to you a strechable* dimension, like a direction that you can put a strechable* ruler into, or an all pervasive, albeit fluid property of eternity? 17) do you picture time as the escalator your are standing on as you go down/up to the next floor, or 18) as the one way street that you are driven through to get to the future? Our movement through time is experienced only in the "now." 19) how long is the "now" in duration? 20) its that where you exist? 21) so, better keep moving! right? *all 4 dimensions or their material content undergo relativistic deformation in Einsteins' spacetime. In this model, spacetime, an therefore we, are present only in the present (time). Nothing really "exists" in the past or in the future except God.

    what MODEL that deal with these reality** questions is in your Mind? **only reality that pertains to the observable 4 dimension universe.

    What further non - smart-alecki, non - frivolis, not-off -topic questions of broad interest would you like see discussed in this context?

  • tec
    tec

    *just trying to fix the formatting*

    if you like to think of the BIG QUESTION and can imagine to remove one of the 3 similar space dimensions to put in TIME as a substitute, a picture should emerge that you can work with. SO:

    1)working into the past from the big bang creation or random event, (like in "100 ABB" or "-100 BB"} , as an atheist, was there a start- up vaccuum oscillation, the casimir effect gone viral,or similar random event , or

    2)as a non-atheist was there a Creator that had energy to spare to make matter? and if these scenerios are among the possibilties,

    1a)did these vaccuum events happen in time? accelerations without time?

    or for the Deiists:

    3)did the (eternal) God have "time on his hands"?

    4) or did he exist without time?

    5)if he existed in the eternal past, is he still there or

    5a) has he left the past?

    6) if he lives in the eternal future, is he already there?,or

    6a) is he moving through time with us to get there? if that is so,

    6b) does he exist in only half an eternity, the past' and is now off into the future?

    6c) does it make sense to have half an eternity? so:

    6d) is the future eternal time still empty? in other words:

    7) does God move through time the way we do? if yes,

    8) is he smaller than eternity in order to have room to move in eternal time?

    8a) can he be eternal without filling eternal time?

    8b) if only we (and creation) move through time and God does not, is'nt time static, unmoving? then:

    9) what moves, we or time?

    10) if times moves is there a steady supply of it coming out of the past or

    10b) out of the future? or,

    11) are we moving through the same static time that God is unmovably existng in?

    12) If time is not moving and eternal, why could it not have been present before the universe started to accelerate out of the bb singularity?

    13) did space and its material/enrgy content start making the move through eternal time at the bb? if not,

    14) why are we always sense moving through time, even when not aware of moving with respect to space or at least some of its content?

    15) if you could stick your arm out of our expanding universe into the unimaginable "void", would you feel or measure the expansion as movement in time?

    16) is time to you a strechable* dimension, like a direction that you can put a strechable* ruler into, or an all pervasive, albeit fluid property of eternity?

    17) do you picture time as the escalator your are standing on as you go down/up to the next floor, or

    18) as the one way street that you are driven through to get to the future?

    Our movement through time is experienced only in the "now."

    19) how long is the "now" in duration?

    20) its that where you exist?

    21) so, better keep moving! right?

    *all 4 dimensions or their material content undergo relativistic deformation in Einsteins' spacetime.

    In this model, spacetime, an therefore we, are present only in the present (time). Nothing really "exists" in the past or in the future except God.

    what MODEL that deal with these reality** questions is in your Mind? **only reality that pertains to the observable 4 dimension universe.

    What further non - smart-alecki, non - frivolis, not-off -topic questions of broad interest would you like see discussed in this context?

  • prologos
    prologos

    tec, thanks I am in my 80s and need all the help I can get. blessings

  • tec
    tec

    You're welcome, and thanks for the blessings :)

    I'll look at answering some of it tomorrow evening.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I have tried to read some science books to understand this stuff better. The explanations are as difficult as the questions. It's not that they cannot be understood, but I think it takes a book instead of a paragraph or two to answer most of these questions.

    Some of the good books were BEFORE THE BIG BANG: THE PREHISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE by Brian Clegg
    A UNIVERSE FROM NOTHING: WHY THERE IS SOMETHING RATHER THAN NOTHING by Lawrence Krauss

    Without trying to complicate things with a simple answer, it would appear that "nothing" is not absolutely nothing, nature truly does abhor a vaccuum, and time did not exist until the universe existed.

    Some of your questions are about as puzzling as "If our legs folded the other way, what would a chair look like?" I think they were supposed to be that way. Good day.

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    Dude, cut back on the reefers while watching Star Trek re-runs.

  • prologos
    prologos

    on the way out, thank you for answering the call. its true, that these things can get very complicated but there always is a way, if you understand it to put in a nutshell, one sentence. my point is this, and science will not go into the territory befoer the big bang, and they should not. : if there is a creator, or PRE liminary conditions, that Creator is older, therefore has to be in TIME. so Time has to be present BEFORE the creation. so: time did not start at creation. scientist do not see this, because they dont look beyond the Zero point of the big bang. so: taking the posted question one at a time builds a model in ones mind of a creator, or precondition for were we are now. why does it matter? the other topics being discussed, predestination all are linked in this viewpoint debate. thank you: Itried that that forward folding leg thing, and it works good in my easy chair with the leg support all the way up. NO, I did not plan these question that way, but they show the paradox nature of commomly held beliefs. like 6a) does god move through time the way we do? thats what most believe. but the legs forward paradox in this belief is that the god cant be L'ETERNEL because he is only eternal in the past. and if he is not in the future? how can he observe us shaping our own as we go? try to answer these question for fun, its more rewarding then a crossword puzzle.

    peace.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    As an atheist who became one because I realised that neither the bible god nor 'his' followers knew what a "volcano" was.... [Exodus 19: 16-19]

    When I was being bullied and intimidated into the cult by my parents, I toed the official line and claimed that "goddidit". But at the same time, I understood that science was researching the question of the origins of the universe, and that they were learning far more than the "spiritually-minded" sitting in their churches - or those making up their own special little new versions of "religion".

    Science still doesn't know what "came before" the "big bang" - that's the nature of science. Stating an absolute while the data is still being accumulated is far too premature.

    I'm O-K with that. I don't need an "absolute answer" - "I don't know, but we're working on it" is better than "a middle-eastern god that wasn't heard of before 500 B.C. somehow built the whole universe which is far, far older than the earliest peep about 'yhwh'..."

  • prologos
    prologos

    tec, -----------as a newby I have read some of your postings, and my view point might not fit in with your developed spirituality. With strong work and result-driven background, I can not think of the higher domain and our world without the two conforming at the interface. I still consider myself a spiritual person as defined in I Cor.2:15. the depth at which discussion is done here would never work in kh, so perhaps this is the the way that a consencus will emerge on truth. what a time to be alive! I think the divine has to be of greater extend than the material domain, and as we have underestimated in the past the size of the universe, we greatly underestimate the awsome personality that is the author of creation., or its non- spiritual counterpart if that understanding should turns out be right.

    your signature is a bunch of lilies. The shape of the lily is a factor in debunking the claim of bible detractors that see the measurements of the water reservoir at 1KIngs 7:26 not to give Pi, 3.14--. my take on this is on Beabeorean.com " pi and the 10 system in the bible". I have however issues with other accounts in the scriptures, if they are taken literally. thank you: peace.

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