Reaching Loved Ones Stuck in a Cult: An Idea for Discussion

by 00DAD 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cedars

  Ding

  How do we identify those secret doubts?

  That's a tough one. In my case, I explained my doubts (I actually wrote them in a list) and they ended up roughly corresponding with my wife's. You could try a similar tactic with your friend. Say that you would love to be able to go back, but there are just a few niggling things you have trouble with and you wonder whether he would be able to clear them up for you? Make sure you pick things that could be found in the Society's literature or website. For example, if you start discussing the UN/NGO or Mexico/Malawi scandals he will see right through you.

  Just a suggestion.

  Cedars
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  Lozhasleft

  I think that any methods that can help free loved ones from the grip of the WTBS are worth considering. I hope this results in some well planned tactics that can be used.

  Loz x
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  sickandtired

  My husband claims he doesn't have any doubts. I don't necessarily believe that. Although the blood doctrine was never much of an issue for me (weird, I know), I think that it may be something that makes my husband uncomfortable. He still hasn't filled out a DPA and he's an elder. He keep his old blood card in his wallet. I've never asked him why he hasn't. That whole fractions business is what I think he has trouble with. Other clues are that when we see something on TV about a disease affecting the blood (such as leukemia or sickle cell anemia), he always asks me "What would happen to a Witness who had that disease?" We conclude that they'd probably die. Then there's the time when I was expressing my doubts to him (I mentioned that Jehovah had a law about a woman grabbing a man's genitals and losing her hand as punishment. I expressed how barbaric that sounded). He chastised me for expressing my doubts and then made the comment that he could understand if it was the blood doctrine I had trouble understanding. I recently started thinking about all of this and realized maybe I should be working the blood doctrine angle with him.
• 

  cedars

  sickandtired

  I recently started thinking about all of this and realized maybe I should be working the blood doctrine angle with him.

  Yes, you should.

  I'm like you in that the blood doctrine was not one of the things I had a problem with when I first woke up. However, when I finally forced myself onto an "apostate" website, I found some great information on the subject on jwfacts.com on the link below...

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blood-transfusions.php

  It might be worth examining the article and seeing if there are any points you could try discreetly sharing with your husband. In particular, you could ask him about the analogy used by the Society regarding transfusing alcohol into your body if you are an alcoholic, and how ridiculous that is. You could also point out that transfusing blood is totally different from injesting blood, because once blood is in your bloodstream, it performs an entirely different role than food would.

  Cedars
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  sickandtired

  Thanks, Cedars!
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  stuckinamovement

  This is a great thread. One of the things that has helped me a little is to show my loved one sections of the elder book. This has surprised them and convinced them that hypocrisy abounds. I have also shown them copies of recent letters to the BOE that deal with molestation and porn.

  Another angle that has been sucessful is pointing to the recent cost cutting measure done by the society in terms of branch closures, property sales and publishing changes, and asking "if branch dedications and expansion of facilities and publications are evidence of God's spirit blessing the work, what are the closures, sales and cost cutting measures evidence of? "

  I have come to realize that some people will never wake up, simply because they need someone to tell them how to think and act. They need the cult more than it needs them.

  SIAM
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  Christ Alone

  I am probably not the best person to answer this, since I have had little success with most of my own family.

  I just have to stop and say that this is amazing coming from jwfacts. He has single handedly helped THOUSANDS of JWs to see TTATT. And while we can be used to helped so many others, the ones closest to us seem impossible. My own family still won't listen to a word I have to say about the Witnesses.

  There are a few ways to go about trying to get someone to see TTATT. The first is to show how the WT is biblically wrong. The main problem with this is that the initial response of a JW is to go to the older WT articles and see what the "answer" is.

  One of the most effective tools that I've used is to avoid talking about JWs all together. Instead I prefer to bring up another organization and talk about them. "Wow, the mormons are really off base, huh?" Talk about what a mormon should do when questioning the organization. Should they see what ex members have to say? Should they research the history of the church without relying on what the church themselves say about their own history? Did you know that they actually control what the members of that organization can and cannot read? They don't allow them to read anything critical of the mormon church! What do you thinka bout that?!?"
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  tornapart

  I think I've tried all angles.. Mormons, Amish.. questions, arguements, I try to keep from being attacking as I know that doesn't work. Dropping questions every now and again works the best for me. The best I can say I've got so far is acceptance from them that I no longer believe it all, even if I have to keep it up. If I stop they start thinking I'm 'coming back'.. that's never going to happen. I'm constantly trying to think of new things that might work.
• 

  Terry

  Getting a person to question their own beliefs is like trying to get a gay person to be straight.

  Or maybe it is more like trying to get a straight person to "try" homosexuality.

  It has to do with their private identity. Their reality. Who they are. How they are made.

  And...most importantly: self-honesty.

  JW'S, for example, have their reality modeled for them constantly. There is no model for doubt except for condemnation and disloyalty.

  Who wants to see themselves as condemned or disloyal??

  Self-preservation starts with a sense of SELF.

  How aware can a person be of reality who believes half the stuff JW's teach??

  You are not dealing with a realist so why expect realistic response?

  You are not dealing with a rational thinker so why expect a logical response?

  It comes down to learned reactions: automatic responses to external stimuli like Pavlov's dog.

  Certain words and phrases trigger the required emotional and physical reactions inside the Kingdom Hall.

  If you don't speak that language you can't negotiate the buried land mines.

  Never accuse or you are attacking "mother" organization.

  LOYALTY to the GB is really what this religion is all about on a visceral and subconscious level.

  JW's only think what it is safe to think.

  Remember that when providing a safe listening partner for their problems.

  What is a conscience for if you are told what to think?

  Why were the Boreans noble-minded if they reacted skeptically by checking the facts?

  Separate the view of solidarity into components: Jehovah, Jesus, GB.

  Put those in proper order!

  Who is the only Mediator? Yeah? Where does that leave the GB??

  Divide and conquer.
• 

  moshe

  Reaching loved ones to quit the KH is a noble cause, but , IMHO, it won't work out very well.

  JWs want what they want, ie, to survive Armageddon, cheat death and go into a paradise earth and live forever in perfect health and be happy every day for an eternity. If JWs didn't like this idea, they would pick some other religion, like a being Baptist and float on the clouds with Jesus forever.

  JWs have had plenty of bad news over the last 40 years- plenty of opportunities to back away and admit their religion's dogma was, "flawed", to say the least. But, for the most part, they don't leave over WT dogma changes. For if they are still holding onto the promise of eternal life on earth, they have to stay put. Only the WT religion delivers this unique endtimes hope and you can't win the WT lottery, unless you are a JW in good standing. That old sunk cost fallacy, keeps JWs soldering on, even when they know they should have left in 1976, after the, stay alive until 1975, jingle lost it's flavor and they should have spit it out. An overlapping generation since 1914?- only a dope will accept that as new light from Jehoover.

  The only human being whose opinion you can change is your own. A person has the right to believe in a weird religious dogma and to foolishly waste their life peddling WT literature. If you can stop wondering how you can get stubborn JWs to think like ex-JWs do, the happier you will be.