Did Jesus ever claim he had to die for our sins?

by Cagefighter 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • FlyingHighNow

    Have you read Jehovah Unmasked?

    Today's Universalist Christians don't believe Christ came to offer himself as a ransom.

  • FlyingHighNow

    This is a book about the journey of a Quaker minister and co-author who was once a staunch hellfire believer. It's a very enjoyable read with a sequel:


    The journey to Universalism, that is.

  • sizemik
    They don't seek to convert the world, like christians and muslims do. They work to dominate it. . . . satanus

    A quote from "the horses mouth" A work in progress as we speak.

  • ÁrbolesdeArabia

    cage: What historical context are you talking about? Could you provide souces to help us see your light, lots of ideas from 2-5 century to talk about.

    The great writers provide ample source material with notes from the books and scrolls they derive their arguments from. Ray Franz, good writer with awesome notatations and appendix, Greg Stafford, "E-watchman", "Blondie" post source material from her deep studying. Bring out your big guns onto this discussion.

    "Side note", you think it's wrong for my 17 old daughter to do martial arts? She is hoping to make up for lost time and fights with her older sister (sparring, yelling "Tap-Out")?

  • designs

    CA- your quote from Matthew 5 shows exactly why this Jesus character is considered a fraud in most Jewish circles because it is the oppositie of what Judaism looks to for the Messiah and the future of the Torah (No end or 'fulfillment'). 'Original sin' is another Christian invention as Jews do not believe in this nor interpret the story pf Adam and Eve that way, this proves 'Paul' is a fraud.

    Pauline christianity sounds great to a novice but century after century learned Rabbis kindly explained to common christians and Bishops (Origne and Augustine) alike where they were wrong about this socalled continuity described in Hebrews.

  • Pterist

    Jesus brough little or no attention to himself in the eyes of the public. However, He did reveal himself to those that were chosen, the little flock of Israel.

    He depended on the witness of his Father and the Holy Spirit to lead people to him. In some ways it's like a "closed shop" we can't know Christ unless the Father draws us to him, We can't know the Father unless the Son reveals him. The emphasis is on whats " revealed " to us or more appropriately IN US.

    The Apostle John in his first letter mentions the water, blood and Spirit as 3 witnesses. Which may suggest at his baptism, there was a witness as the Lamb of God. His disciples witness his death, his shed blood and his resurrection....these are eye witnesses of the past, not to us now.....however, the Spirit a third withness, is a witness for ALL time until the end, as mentioned in 1 John 5:6-13 and clearly it's the spirit's leading that reveals the OT fulfillment in Christ and in us.


  • Christ Alone
    Christ Alone

    Designs, you're right about Jews and original sin. It seems that the jews are waiting for a political leader that restores worship at the temple. They do not believe he will deliver then from sin since he will not be supernatural in origin. It seems that the Jews now are expecting what the Jews then were. Both were and will be disappointed. Until the events of revelation occur and a great number of Jews (144,000) accept Jesus Christ as savior.

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