Did Jesus ever claim he had to die for our sins? (page 2)

mind blown

I see. I'm not familiar with what a Rabbi would say.....what and how do they believe?? Could you explain?

Cagefighter

Interesting... I think Matt 26:27-28 were what I was looking for.

mind blown

I gather since I live in a highly hasidic jewish area that would be easy enough.

In my web search I came accross one interesting Rabbi with an interesting prediction......saying the name "Jesus" as the future messiah..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwN1QXDujp0

~and

These Ancient Rabbis Speak of a "Suffering Messiah"......

http://www.oocities.org/twoedged_sword/messiah_in_the_talmud.html

~and

this Rabbi says Jews are still waiting for their Messiah

http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html

So as far as I can see Jews believe in a Messiah ("savior") to redem them.......

Looks like messiahs are a jewish product. If they don't like one, they wait for the next one. Jesus was rejected. You could say that he is a used messiah, a second hand messiah, that they sold us, after they were done w him. Wonder if they would give a refund if we returned him.

S

designs

MB- There is an evolving mysticism within Judaism on the Messiah and some common concepts. Central is the idea that a Messiah is god's messanger, human, who delivers israel from its historically long martyrdom. The Messiah establishes jerusalem as the seat of God's Kingdom and through there the human race is blessed. Belief in One god and his Torah is central. In the debate between Justin Martyr and Rabbi Tryphon the Rabbi asserts- 'We Jews all expect that the Messiah will come into being as a man from among men'. Saviour or saviours are considered people, humans, and sages not someone who would or needs to die for another's redemption. In Judaism everyone answers for themselves. Two distinct Messiahs began to emerge in Jewish literature around the time of the Babylonian exile- One Messiah was considered gentle and the other a warrior.

Every observant Jew says this prayer everyday- 'I believe [Ani Ma'amin] with complete faith that the Messiah will come, and although he may tarry, yet each day I will wait for his coming'.

Satanus

Designs

Yes, their messiah is supposed to come and deliver jews from the cruel oppression of us gentiles.

S

designs

So don't be such a goyim

Christ Alone

Jesus comes along claiming to be God and says 'no I was wrong before and now I've got it right, new plan!'

I am constantly surprised by exJWs that show they don't understand the gospel. I really don't care if they don't believe it, but to show that they have no clue of what the gospel teaches continues to surprise me. No understanding of the book of Hebrews, apparently. And no knowledge that Jesus never said the Law was wrong, and that He did not say that He came to now get it right. Surprising. At least understand the gospel that you are rejecting...

designs

CA- Explain. My assurtion is that the 4 Gospels, Hebrews, and Romans have it, Judaism, wrong. The NT Messiah is not the Messiah of Judaism.

cofty

At least understand the gospel that you are rejecting...

I have to agree with CA on this. I discovered that christian theology is far more subtle than we thought it was as JWs.

Having said that most christians don't know what they believe. For example CA is spot on when he says that, "Jesus never said the Law was wrong, and that He did not say that He came to now get it right. " but there are a lot of self-proclaimed christians around here who don't get this fundamental fact. Jesus was a Jew who was passionate about the Law, who kept it meticulously and who taught his followers to do likewise.

Did Jesus ever claim he had to die for our sins?

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