by Haereticus 28 Replies latest jw friends
How common it is in USA that a JW has a legal firearms? I have no recollection of WTBS publications handling this matter specifically. Of course general attitude towards firearms in USA is different from Europe but so is also legislation.
It is just that once being a concsientious objector I cannot, even after almost 40 years, imagine myself having one.
:*** w83 7/15 25 "Seek Peace and Pursue It" ***
15 If a sizable number of Witnesses in a congregation should be disturbed in that someone is hunting animals merely for sport, and not for obtaining food, he might not be in position to receive special service privileges, because of his offensive reputation.—1 Timothy 3:2.
16 It is similar if one of Jehovah’s Witnesses insists on carrying or having firearms for protection against humans, or on learning the martial arts. The spiritual elders should take immediate steps to counsel and help him to remedy the situation. (Micah 4:3) Anyone who thus continues to carry personal arms or otherwise equips himself to become “a smiter” would cease to qualify for special privileges in the congregation.—1 Timothy 3:2, 3.
Hi all,
Discipline for ownership of a pistol? So add another arbitrary rule to the ``fine print'' of what one gets into when he/she gets dunked.
If, in the interests of full disclosure, JWs would add to the list of questions to be mastered before one qualifies for baptism all of these man-made rules, how long would take years to prepare? And what percentage of the baptismal candidates would simply change their minds halfway through the course?
In the rural kingdom hall that I used to belong to the vast majority of witnesses had guns. Most for hunting purposes but a large amount also owned handguns.
You canown a gun without killing someone with it you know, right? It can be just for fun. I mean cars take many more lives and you don't have a problem starting one up every day.
Never Squat With Yer Spurs On
Hi H,
Do you think they would complain if you owned a sword and carried it around like Peter? He wasn't very good with it if he only cut off an ear. I wonder why Christ didn't instruct them to not carry one around? Well, he did say if you lived by the sword, you would die by the sword, especially if you couldn't use one better than Peter.
Ken P.
Undecided,
That was too funny!
UADNA-TX
Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America
I live in a state where an unusually high percentage of the population hunts, and, believe it or not, where you DO NOT need a permit to carry a gun on you. Several of the Witnesses I know own guns, including myself, and they hunt. As I sit here and write I am within five feet of over half a dozen guns, four bows, half a dozen knives. I could leave my house and see any number of rifles on racks in pick up trucks within minutes, and I know a lot that carry a pistol in the glove box or under the drivers seat. We also have an extremely low crime rate here.
But there has been discussion about this topic in the local congregations for decades. Essentially the brothers who hunt tell those who would make problems about it that it's none of their business. And I've heard the CO complain a few times when a circuit assembly coincided with the opening weekend of deer season and attendance was noticeably down. But other than that, it has seldom been discussed, and I know of no one who has had to go to the elders for owning a pistol.
That having been said, I agree with LB's comment that just because you own a gun is no indication that you intend to ever use it on another person.
I think the WTS take on this is, as usual, a bit twisted. I know a brother who came home one night with his wife. There was an intruder in the house who didn't realize the husband was there and attacked the wife and started trying to rape her. The brother was a rugged mason, and beat the living shit out of the guy. Well, wouldn't you know it, the brother had to meet with the elders because they felt that he'd used excessive force on the robber and rapist. Christ, talk about trying to oversee every detail of your life that is none of their fucking business!!
In martial arts there is the concept of never striking the first blow. That's a good idea, as long as you understand that that doesn't necessarily mean waiting until someone else hits you. Someone can strike a blow against you by making it clear that they intend to do you some serious harm. My view is that if someone breaks into my home, they are, by that very action, expressing a serious threat against my life and my family, and that I have the right to respond to that action by defending myself and my family by whatever means is at hand.
In other words, I would assume that someone coming into my home for no good purpose is threatening to kill me, or is prepared to, and I would respond according to that assumption.
Does this make sense? Any other views out there?
S4
I grew up a Catholic. We had several guns in the house. We were taught respect for life, and how to handle guns.
When I became a JW, with the anti-war sentiment during the Viet Nam conflict, I became a Consciencious Objector, and would not own a gun.
Several JWs liked to go hunting, and had some serious debates with the Congregation Servant. A letter was written to the Society about 1970-1971 on whether a JW could go hunting. The Society wrote back in support of hunting, and later published this in Questions from Readers if I am not mistaken.
When I in my exit process in 1992, I bought a Rifle. I lived in the country, and the Coyotes and Racoons kept going after my Chickins. I never caught them at the right time, though I fired at one, he got out of range.
Today, I have adopted once again my family training. I believe in self-defense, and in citizen militias as a last check and balance against government tyranny. This is the basis for private gun ownership in the USA.
There are about 280,000,000 guns in this country, about 1 for every person. While we have higher gun deaths than most western nations, we also have the highest per capita gun ownnership rates ... makeing our gun deaths to gun ownership ratio about the same as any other country.
Its all in the culture. Canada, for example, culturally has more trust in their government, and it works for them. I admire Canadians. But Americans could never do that. We trust ourselves individually first. We fear too much organization.
PS: To more directly answer your question: JW gun ownership until the early 1980s was likely lower than the general population because of the stand they took against war. Also, being a police officer was frowmed upon. In the early 1980s the Society prohibited JWs from owning handguns. So, the only remaining JWs owning guns would be those who had hunting rifles.
Following Bible principles, we will avoid trying to live - or demand others to live - by an extensive and rigid set of dos and don'ts that go beyond the teachings of the Bible. The Watchtower, 4-15-02, pg 22, pp 15
I agree Seeker, very well said. I too live in a state where most folks carry guns, and we dont need a permit. If some one broke into my home when my wife and kids are home, I feel they want more then just my TV, and Im glad to have the guns I own.
Undecided -- OMFG TOO FUNNY!!!!
My dad is an elder. He has several guns. In fact, I knew of several people (ministerial servants included) in my hall had guns, and no I am not talking about hunting equipment. I am talking human killing machines otherwise known as handguns.
Since gun ownership would not be broadcasted in the different congregations, I can imagine more have them and don't say much. Down in Florida (the south) lots of people have guns.
Us blood-thirsty USA folks don't think much about it. Of course, a lot of people think USA is horrifically violent with daily drive by shootings. This of course is not true. I live in a place that is a much older neighborhood and we never once had a break-in. In fact, most people don't even lock their houses. Gun ownership here is simply a precaution. Nothing more or less.
