Recovery, why do you constantly refuse to answer your organization's dreadful record on how it deals with active child abusers, those that still serve in positions of authority , served as GB members etc , the WTS now has a reputation world wide for this, yet every single thread you compose to attack jwfacts.com, you constantly refuse to address this issue, if this thread makes a 100 pages I will still pose this question. My own previous congregation has a dirty paedophile in good standing in its midst,(Micheal Porter, Wimbledon London UK) whose lustful perversions included the rape of a baby boy, he was welcomed after his conviction like a prodigal son returning, yet someone like myself is cut off and shunned for vocalising statements that were contrary to the WTS, why wont you address these issues?
Jwfacts-- Why So Many Contradictions?
by Recovery 88 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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rather be in hades
I'm sure the lurkers out there would love to know why the legal department of the jehovah's witnesses would dispute in those very same documens that:
- pioneers are held as examples in the congregation (9)
- or why they would say unbaptized members are not viewed as part of the congregation (16)
- there's the question of time slips. according to the watchtower society in LEGAL PAPERWORK you do not have to turn in time (23 and 24)
- there's the qestion of the meeting for field service...nnecessary according to the watchtower society (25)
- there's the question of territories...unnecessary according to the watchtower society (26 and 27)
- the purpose of field service is to preach about the good news, NOT TO INVITE PEOPLE TO THE KINGDOM HALLS OR TO BEGIN BIBLE STUDIES SO AS TO ATTRACT NEW MEMBERS (27 AND 28)
there's a lot of explaining to do because all of that stands in direct contradiction to everything that we've all been taught as jws.
sounds like someone's lying and we all know who the father of the lie is. is that the person directing the organization?
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Recovery
I will answer all child abuse issues once my previous issues with jwfacts have been settled. So if you really want answers to your questions, I'd urge him to address my arguments and his contradictions.
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jgnat
I gave a perfectly reasonable explanation on page one of this thread. The author of JWfacts does not claim to represent Jehovah. He is not required to demonstrate consistency as the WTS is.
Addressed and answered.
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rather be in hades
as previously stated your questions have been asnwered and you simply don't like them. tough cookie.
it's very dishonest and extremely weak of you to nitpick on things you have no proof even happened, such as magic and miracles, yet you refuse to answer the basic contradictions in your beloved organization.
and what's more, it is a testament to how empty the watchtower society really is. you have no answer because you know jehovah's spirit would not appoint active child molestors to the body of elders, at least not according to the bible.
so this throws all out of whack your theories that your organization is directed by god's holy spirit.
it's not.
very ironic how you came on this board to defend the witnesses and you've done nothing but expose it for the fraud that it is by running away from the question. eventually, you and your fellow witnesses will have to deal with this head on.
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Recovery
This is not about Jehovah or the WT. This is about his inability to admit when he is wrong and how he cannot rightly call his website jwFACTS
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jookbeard
I think the child abuse issues warrant far more priority then your gripe with jwfacts which should be addressed privately. 99.9% of folks on here seem very happy with his work.
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rather be in hades
because like it or not, those are the facts. you do not have a special set of facts to work with. there is a reality you must deal with.
now how about we deal with the FACT that jehovah's spirit directed organization was promoting active child molestors to the body of elders?
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Recovery
Can you provide proof for us of this long list of elders who were molesting children PRIOR to their appointment and who continued doing so DURING the time of their appointment and AFTER their appointment?
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rather be in hades
thought you'd never ask :D
if recovery is REALLY interested in defending "the truth" and wants to debunk the accusations, then my suggestion is to explain my questions because lurkers are going to see this:
they'll read the documents in file 2a which were prepared by the watchtower bible and tract society themselves and they will seethese undisputed facts and this undisputed timeline of events:
starting from page 2...
- they don't deny the elders are revered in the congregation - meaning they take leadership and are trusted (2)
- don't deny elders and ministerial servants are vetted before becoming one - uh ohhhh (3)
- they don't deny elders are agents of the watchtower - so if an elder rapes a child...and the elder is an agent of the watchtower...(5)
- they don't deny there is an elder book that tells them how to handle sexual abuse - so it's by wt instructions how to handle matters (6)
- they don't deny you mst be approved for field service - vetting? we are talking about approaching homes with children...(11)
the time line is rather scary. all of these are facts not disputed by the watchtower society
- 1977 - dorman was born
- 1980 - campos becomes an baptized publisher in 1980 (34)
- 1982 - campos molests a young member of linda vista congregation (39)
- 1982 - yong member tells his mother (40)
- 1982 - at this time, campos CONFESSES to the boy's mother (41)
- 1982 - -mother tells elders, elders investigate, campos confesses to elders, NO ACTION TAKEN (42-47)
- 1982 - elders decides it's a minor matter bc they feel as though the mothers of the two involved worked it out somehow (48)
- 1982 - elder knew molestation was a crime, that he may repeat the crime, yet no restrictions on service and cong not warned (49)
- 1982 - police never called and campos continued condcting bible studies (50-51)
- 1983 - WHEN DORMAN WAS 6 YEARS OLD, CAMPOS WOULD SODOMIZE HIM AFTER BIBLE STUDY. HE WOULD TAKE DORMAN TO WORK WITH HIM. DORMAN'S MOTHER THOUGHT THIS WAS FINE AS HE WOULD BE A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR HER SON. (100)
- 1985 - WHEN DORMAN WAS APPROX 8 YEARS OLD, THE ABUSE STOPPED...AT LEAST AT WORK...STILL SKETCHY IF THERE WAS MORE. (100)
- 1986 - linda vista splits into la jolla and linda vista. both halls comprised of members from the original linda vista (57)
- 1986 - inaugural elders for la jolla congregation were elders from linda vista
- 1986 - elders form judicial committee for campos as more sexal molestation allegations come forth (pg. 24 - 2)
- 1986 - reproved, not expelled, temporary restriction on some priveledges (pg. 24 - 3)
- 1987 - Dormans move to Illinois, victim was 10...
- 1988 - becomes a ministerial servant (36)
- 1988 - campos started molesting gamboa and continued molesting him until 1994, sometimes as many as 2-3x a week from oral to attempted sodomy, digital anal penetration. (83-86)
- 1993 - becomes an elder, eventually becomes congregation servant (37)
- 1994 - gamboa moves to arizona and campos can no longer abuse him (86)
- 1994 - the dormans learn their son had been molested by campos (60)
- 1994 - campos admits to molesting dorman AND THAT THE ELDERS ALREADY KNEW (61)
- 1994 - dormans ask the riveras who are believed to have a son molested by campos, riveras were already warned of campos (62)
- 1994 - elders say that if she pursues the matter a previous affair she engaged in would be disclosed to the congregation, also said that too many years had passed and there was nothing they could do (63)
this calls into question how jehovah's spirit directed organization could possibly allow campos who was already accused of child molesting TO THE BODY OF ELDERS, to be promoted ministerial servant and later elder. all the while he was continuously molesting children in the flock that he was supposed to sheppard
whose spirit is really directing the organiztion?