This must be true because nothing else fits

by biometrics 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • biometrics
    biometrics

    So elder X came over the other day to convince me about why Jehovah's Witnesses have 1914 correct. I wrote about this some time ago, but the elder never returned. He caught me off-guard, and unprepared.

    He went through the reasoning book (p95), and pointed out all the reaons (day for a year, daniel, 360 days, 2520 ...). Then his line of reasoning took the route of "1914 must be correct because there's so many other prophesies hanging off it, and if it were moved all these other prophesies woudn't make sense" and "1914 must be correct because nothing else fits". This type of reasoning is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start.

    I expect him back next week, and I'd like to present him with some questions/evidence revaling why 1914 date is questionable.

    My wife, who is not yet a JW (but occasionally goes to meetings) will also be there. If it wasn't for her slight interest I wouldn't even bother with this.

  • Recovery
    Recovery

    Enjoy your christian fellowship and help from the elders while you still can. Apostates are not going to lead you anywhere but out of the organization and into dried, muddied, waters. The organization has many flaws, but don't allow yourself to be mislead out of it so easily.

  • glentrevette
    glentrevette

    you said ORGANIZATION

  • biometrics
    biometrics

    As long as they don't lead me away from Christ I'll be OK.

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    So what are you doing here Recovery? I guess it's ok, following the WTS lead in hanging with the UN.....little leven spoils the whole loaf.......remember that one.....?

    Cover your eyes and ears for this one.......

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53_076V7a5s

  • Recovery
    Recovery

    Please remember where Christ is.

    2 Corinthians 5:20 "We are therefore ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making entreaty through us. As substitutes for Christ we beg: “Become reconciled to God.”

    Ephesians 3:10 "[This was] to the end that now to the governments and the authorities in the heavenly places there might be made known through the congregation the greatly diversified wisdom of God, 11 according to the eternal purpose that he formed in connection with the Christ, Jesus our Lord"

    Colossians 1:17, 18 " Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation."

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Ask him to draw you up a list of babylonian kings, with their reigns, the way it really was, including references to reliable sources.

    Feign taking offense at him trying to bully/decieve/whatever you into this belief without backing up his statements with a well researched debunking of the accepted king lists.

    He is the one making the claim that the experts are wrong, so it is up to him to provide the evidence.

    He has to do all the talking .... you just stick to keeping him honest and making him feel guilt for any trickery.

  • graysome67
    graysome67

    It is a circular argument. Ask him what their basis is for using 360-day lunar years? If there is anything in the bible that indicates whether we should be using a 360-day year for our symbolic "years"? As the Society has often pointed out, an extra month had to be inserted "seven times, every nineteen years." That's because it actually takes 365+ days for the earth to complete an actual yearly cycle. Since the Society's scriptural recipe is based on the premise of 360-day years, they arrive at 1914, accounting for no zero-year. But if you take into account the extra month that had to be inserted every now and then, your premise would practically be based on a 365-day solar year. 365 · 7 = 2,555 years; 607 BCE - 2,555 years = 1949 (accounting for no zero-year, and notwithstanding the faulty 607 BCE date.) I would also like to point out that the Society's stubborn stand on 607 BCE is sort of ridiculous. And not for the reasons that are often cited: They could actually cling to that date on somewhat plausible grounds, on the fundamental fact alone that (and as confirmed by secular history), Judah was captured and rendered tributary by Nebachadnezzar circa 607/606 BCE. Many theologians and scholars affirm that this was when the prophetic "70 years of captivity" began. 20 years later, Jerusalem was finally destroyed, in 587/586 BCE, as affirmed by secular history. Though much of their argument regarding 1914 would still present some logical fallacies, their conjecture regarding the date would be far more plausible.

    This is one of the problems that has lead to me to believe they do not have The Truth™ -they blindly cling to a date for the destruction of Jerusalem when they don't have to. There is a far more logical argument that harmonizes with secular history, but they would rather be stubborn than to ever admit they are wrong. I'm sorry to say, but this is the sort of superficially pious rhetoric that I've experienced all my life. Only in recent years had I become disillusioned enough to put my finger on it.

    As for Christ - Jesus was given the prominence that a "Christian" denomination normally would - as our leader and our Lord (although nontrinitarian, as opposed to most denominations.) But in the past two or three decades, Christ's role and importance has been trumped more and more by the hierarchy of the Governing Buddy.

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    Recovery still hasnt done any real research I see, LOL

  • rather be in hades
    rather be in hades

    recovery has done a LOT of research.

    unfortunately the sources were full of shit :(

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