Defeating The Watchtower - What Does This Mean?

hillary_step

Hello,

I actually wrote this post in response to a poster recently dealing with the 'defeating' of the WTS.

I have started a new topic with the post as I would like to hear opinions of what XJW's and others view as a 'defeated' Watchtower.

"I am not quite sure what we all want from the WTS. What does a person mean by 'defeating' the Watchtower?

Destroying it, selling its buildings, giving the cash back to the people who bought them? I hope not because surely a true conscience would then dictate that we start the same sort of actions against the next control oriented religion, and then the next one...etc.

Or perhaps defeating it means seeing the more anti-social aspects of their theology rendered harmless. If this is the case, the natural process of theological evolution is taking them into these waters as we speak. We can of course by applying pressure in the *right* places, and I emphasize the *right* places hasten this process, but whatever happens the next couple of decades will see a much changed WTS. These changes wrought not so much by XJW’s, as the changing society in which we live.

I am convinced of one thing. That if we allow our experiences with the WTS to trap us in the vacuum between itself and ‘real life’, so that we unable to view our experiences in a wider perspective, then they have defeated us. A person truly defeats the WTS when they are able to gaze upon its excesses in the spirit of analysis rather than anger. It is then that we are better equipped to see our way forward.

Pain and passion can be beautiful reactions, but they can also be a dark prison for our hearts."

Kind regards - HS

metatron

There is a deep dark part of my soul that fantasizes about
a torch and pitchfork wielding mob (wearing Liederhosen, I think)
storming Paterson/Bethel and lynching the GB in the style
of Mussolini. Alas, - just a fantasy (sigh!)

In mercy, we must settle for at least two things: the end of their
fraudulent blood transfusion policy and the end of disfellowshipping
as presently arranged. The cruelty and death dealing lies must stop.

If these moral reforms continue to be resisted, then by all means,
let them be vilified, sued, and driven out of existence.

Fast would be wonderful - but a slow chipping away of Watchtower
authority is more realistic - and very effective - as a strategy.

I still like the torch wielding mob chasing Frankenstein...

metatron

You Know

Whatever each one has in mind it is interesting that Psalms 21:11 says in this regard: "For they have directed against you what is bad; they have thought out ideas that they are unable to carry out. For you will make them turn their backs in flight..." / You Know

hillary_step

Robert,

"For they have directed against you what is bad..."

If I could have faith that this verse was discussing a US Corporation, filled with self-seeking, ambitious and often heartless middle-management icons who believe their own press, I would sympathise with your viewpoint.

It is however pertaining to the God who says he does not live in "hand-made temples", as the C1st apostate Jews obsessed. He certainly does not live within the pages of an S22E form, and I suspect looks with horror at the Corporation that has been elevated by human wisdom, above his own name.

Best - HS

logical

The Tower will remain until it is hurled into the firey lake. However at that time the only people in it will be those worthy of that judgement.

There is not much we can do to the Tower, and any effort is a waste of time, however we can help whoever wants to be helped. God will draw people out of there and to Christ, as he draws people out of the nations and other religions to Christ.

How to really escape the tower: Forgive them for all they have done to you and anyone else. By showing unconditional forgiveness you are doing something they are incapable of. Get rid of all hatred. There is too much of that about.

Englishman

I have always maintained that my main points of contention with the WTBTS are based on social issues.

I have my own beliefs with regard to a Creator, however, I choose not to publish them on this forum although I am willing to share them via email, although I will never get into argumentation, as I believe this just devalues the value of the Scriptures. Posts written by persons such as YK are, IMHO, the complete antithesis of what true Christianity is all about, and I have given up discussions with such people.

Quite frankly, I don’t care what JW’s believe, if they think that the moon is made of Wensleydale cheese like Wallace and Grommet do, that’s fine by me. My objections to JW’s centres upon what they DO, and I will continue to work hard with any JW, to show them that their BEHAVIOUR is very wrong.

We all know what aspects of their behaviour is bad, DF’ing is the obvious one right down the line to children having to alienate themselves from their school mates.

So HS, to answer your question, no, the WTBTS won’t “fall”, hopefully, given enough time, they will gradually see the error of their ways and begin to treat people as human beings should be treated.

Englishman.

BritBoy

Defeat for me would simply mean the outing of the WTS for what it is. The hipocritical nature of the beast. Too many lives have been damaged by shunning (mine one in hundreds of thousands), the blood issue etc etc

I want to see an end to all that shit. Burning, lynching, repayment for lost income and donations? Nah... simply allow others to learn from my mistake of being a JW... even if I had no choice in the matter! Besides, I have too much fun with them at my door and GOD FORBID in their own KH's! LOL

Britty

"My body is a Temple NOT an Amusement Park"

Almost There

I don't know if I would want the religion to be defeated. But I would like for the Watchtower God to start writing things that would benefit it's followers. Because we know whatever they put in those publications, the followers will except immediately without hesitation.

As others have mentioned to do away with disfellowshipping, to allow members who no longer believe to walk away with dignity, to allow children to participate in sports, to sing in a xmas pageant (out of respect for other people's beliefs, there are alot jewish children, budhist, etc. who partipate in different activities), to learn about other faiths without talking negatively, to encourage nuturing god given talents (sports, singing, academics, etc.), to treat women equal, etc.

These are the things that I feel would make the religion human. So those changes with their wonderful paradise package would make this a great religion.

Lee Elder

"I am not quite sure what we all want from the WTS. What does a person mean by 'defeating' the Watchtower?"

I suppose this means different things to different people. Some might reject the question altogether. To imagine that we can even be responsible for forcing the WTS to change its most dangerous and barbaric policies is unrealistic.

To me, defeating the WTS is a matter of turning up the light of public scrutiny and educating Jehovah's Witnesses about how individuals and families are impacted by the WTS policies. The free flow of accurate
information is a "defeat" of the WTS, since it can only thrive in a vacuum. Additionally, when the public and the governments begin to fully understand these issues, they will pressure the WTS to change - this too is a "defeat" of sorts.

On a personal level, I have a hard time thinking in terms of "defeating" the WTS. I still have many friends and family members in the organization. I want them to be well treated by the WTS. I don't want to rock their world and turn them on their heads, theologically. I am in no more of a position to offer them "the truth" then the WTS is. I have no interest in destroying their golden calf; I just don't want it to destroy them.

Additionally, I feel my own experience is more analogous to surviving a disaster than winning a war.

Lee

sleepy

If you take away all the things that are wrong with the org what do you have left?
Not a lot.
I would like members to know the truth about the org.
The real history, errors ,how biased and bad their research and the info in the mags is, that they have been mislead ,even abused by men who thought too much of themselves.
I don't think we live in an age where religions can quietly change.
Maybe in the last centuary in my parents and their parents generation, but now things are different.Information travels fast
people want thier rights.
To defeat the watchtower means complete cloesure of the organisation .The GB to resign all commities disbanded a statment of truth and apology.
A distribution of its assets by the courts of the lands.
This would apply to any religion that has knowingly mislead its members in order to gain power over them.

Defeating The Watchtower - What Does This Mean?

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