Hassan's New Book: Chapter 2- What is Destructive Social Influence ?

by flipper 55 Replies latest jw friends

  • rip van winkle
    rip van winkle

    Scotoma-What is meant by authentic self is the person prior to "social influence". You prefer disoriented- as in confusion of time, place or personal identity? I Seems to me your view is black or white without any shades of gray. Do I misunderstand you?

    You said People high in openness to experience are always challenging the status quo and authority. They tend to be more creative and less rigid. They also tend to be liberal vs conservative.

    Do you think you are high in openness? Or are you rigid?

    Openness to experience is highly heritable. This suggests that perhaps some peoples "authentic selves" are really gullible and resistant to change. What is the source of this wisdom, please?

    Telling people how much they are loved gets them to believing lies. What? Telling them how much they are loved can get them to believing in the more conventional lies of their non-JW relatives. What?

  • scotoma
    scotoma

    OTWO was speaking about a "false" self vs "authentic self". That is a false dichotomy. I say we are always our "selves". Sometimes our "selves" are disoriented due to inaccurate information about the world.

    An infant is unsocialized. It is intent that its needs are "miraculousy" taken care of. Socialization is learning that there are other people in this world. Our first disorientation comes from believing that we are totally dependent on these "others" for our needs to be satisfied. Of course an infant can't see the big picture, but as it does see a larger context it comes to understand more about how everything works and what's expected. Maturation requires the organism or "self" to make informed decisions and eventually realizes that its information may need tweaking to conform to reality. So there is never a question about whether a self is authentic or false.

    Black and white? You are either dead or alive. Aristotle defined psyche as the capacity to feel, sense, think and act. Each "self" is some hierarchy of these capacities. People are thinkers, doers, feelers and seers in some combination.

    I know I am generally open to the possibility that I may be wrong and I have changed my views many times. I rigorously keep challenging my own as well as others views. My toilet reading is usually books on logic and critical thinking. Toilet reading because I can't take more than a page of that at a time.

    The heritibility of Openness to change has been demonstrated in quite a bit of research. Do a search on the five factor model and openness to change. You will find evidence there.

    I'm glad you asked for a clarification of my statement about getting people to believe lies. I was referring to the fact that organizations that try to get you to join their fraternal state use love/friendship more than argumentation and presentation of proof or evidence to get people to join. So if you are going to coax them away from that state you have to appear more loving than their group. But the problem is that along with the love bomb you are often simply offering them another more conventional and generally accepted lie.

  • rip van winkle
    rip van winkle

    Scotoma- Thank you for your clarification. I'm not sure right now if I agree or disagree with your take on "Self". I have to think about it a little while.

    I know I am generally open to the possibility that I may be wrong and I have changed my views many times.

    Fair enough. Then you are not rigid.

    My toilet reading is usually books on logic and critical thinking. Toilet reading because I can't take more than a page of that at a time.

    TMI (LOL)

    Do a search on the five factor model and openness to change. You will find evidence there.

    I will.

    I was referring to the fact that organizations that try to get you to join their fraternal state use love/friendship more than argumentation and presentation of proof or evidence to get people to join. So if you are going to coax them away from that state you have to appear more loving than their group. But the problem is that along with the love bomb you are often simply offering them another more conventional and generally accepted lie.

    Now, I understand what you meant.

  • flipper
    flipper

    Thought I'd bump this up if anybody desires to comment. Thanks, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    Hey flipper!

    Thanks for the review and for sharing.

    I don't believe Hassan claims to be infallible or seeks a following, yet he has made an invaluable contribution to understanding the mechanisms of cults, especially in deconstructing dual identities.

    I know from my personal experience Hassan speaks the truth. As a 3rd generation born-in who started awakening at 40 and walked out at 44 I was and am very grateful for his pioneering work.

    I pray for a good outcome for you and yours, if at all possible sooner rather than later...

  • flipper
    flipper

    FERNANDO- Thanks Fernando. Hey ! You were the same age as me when you stopped attending meetings, age 44 ! I agree with you that Hassan has done a lot of good in helping people like us exiting cults to see HOW we were deceived and the mechanism behind mind control. Thanks regarding my daughters. I'm going to keep trying to help them in time exit the Witnesses. It may take time, but it's worth it. Peace out, mr. Flipper

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