Restrictions On JW Members: What Are They??

by Cold Steel 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    " I mean, think about it. Do those guys at Bethel have any concept of eternity? How would they feel living in a garden where 500 trillion years is a drop in the proverbial barrel! After 950 trillion years, will they still be digging those family reunions, looking for new musical instruments to play and hiking in the hills and mountains? ..." Cold Steel, page 1, comment #405

    My sentiments exactly.

    Add to that, the fact that the universe is only 12 - 14 billion years old. At 950 trillion years, they would have gone thru - uh, math is not my strong suit, but I think they would have gone through around 7,900 "big bangs" in which the universe collapsed in upon itself and re-exploded [oscillating universe] or would have gone through connections between one universe which is dying and on to the next dimensional universe which would have recently arisen.

    Earth's sun would be long gone, dead at around 2.5 billion years, along with earth itself - likely burned to a cinder by the sun's nova, or rendered a cold, lifeless rock due to the reduction of energy from the sun.

    As you said, 'living for eternity' would be more of a punishment than a reward, especially when one ponders living under the same sort of micro-management that Jehovah's Witnesses are currently subjected to.

    In fact, the mind-numbing sameness of 'eternity', might explain why "god" is so wacked...

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Several of you used the term "approved."

    Being 'approved' has nothing to do with 'prospects' for 'resurrection' (even if such a thing existed). It's just a term used in regard to whether a JW's conduct is deemed acceptable by the local elders.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    When I asked some JWs about what happened to those who had never heard of Christ ....

    Never take what a JW says about their church and it's doctrines at face value. If they say something that doesn't sound right, ask them to show you that in writing. It'll do them good to look for the proof for what they said and not be able to find it, especially if you make them explain their inability to come up with the goods.

    In my experience, they are either being deliberately dishonest with you (Theocratic Warfare) or they see the church through rose colored glasses and need to do some research to understand that their view of the church and it's doctrines is faulty.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Excellent points, Black Sheep.

  • St George of England
    St George of England

    You may wish to ask:

    Restrictions On JW Members In The Bedroom: What Are They?

    George

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    This has been interesting. It makes me wonder whether the church leaders believe all this mess or not. To me, JW eschatology stands out from that of other Christians as being absurd. Their literature talks about being restored to the blissful conditions Adam and Eve enjoyed (though I take it that everyone will be dressed!) But the terrestrial nature of inheriting the Earth, as I said, seems not to make much sense. I ask many Christians what their take on eternity is, and what it entails, and I get all sorts of responses. But the JWs seem to be happy with living for eternity in a garden.

    From what you've said about apostasy, it almost makes me want to attend a Kingdom Hall meeting. Tell me, if I just walked in off the street, what sort of reception would I receive? I've seen some of the KHs, but they look small and uninviting. Mostly they're brick buildings with no windows. Spooky!

    Also, what about elders? How many are there per KH, and does an elder outrank an overseer, or vice versa? I asked about whether elders are ordained by the laying on of hands, but no one replied. Aren't there any former elders online here?

    Thanks again. Love the rants.

  • tornapart
    tornapart

    Well, I'm an active (fading) JW and I'm not supposed to be here. To be honest, any JW can do anything he/she likes, as long as they are not caught.

    There are JWs from either end of the spectrum from those that believe everything and that what they are told from the WTS is the word of God himself to those that don't believe a word of it and can't wait to escape. Most lie somewhere in between. From my life long experience (over 50 years) many will complain about what is expected but will go along with it, most will feel they fall badly short and are always trying to do better. A number will point the finger at others who go wrong somewhere down the line, probably to make themselves feel better. Many will secretly do what they are not supposed to do... from certain music, movies, parties, drinking etc... and many more will try valiantly to do what they believe is right, fall short and then beat themsleves up over what they cannot do, put themselves on a guilt trip and then feel worthless. It is not easy being a JW!

  • tornapart
    tornapart

    In answer to your question about elders. They are all overseers. There is a 'body' of elders that are supposed to meet up to certain requirements. You become a Ministerial Servant before you become an elder (usually over 30 years old). If you meet those requirements the other elders will decide to 'recommend' you. A travelling overseer (called the Circuit overseer) who visits every 6 months for a week will be told of this recommendation. He will write to the Society and they will 'rubber stamp' it. A letter is sent back saying 'Yes' and that's it. The appointment is then announced to the congregation. That's all there is to it.

  • Eustace
    Eustace

    What about r estrictions for unbaptized publishers? What about r estrictions for the "Theocratic Ministry School" thing they have at night? Are they the same as for baptized members?

    It seems like baptism is the big thing potential Jehovah's Witnesses are afraid of...Is that because the restrictions are tighter?

    What I can't understand is how a sect could report an 11% drop off in baptizing from 2010 to 2011 and yet still report more publishers in 2011 than 2010.

    Perhaps differing restrictions for different levels of the sect could be the explanation.

    1) Debate religion here would mean associating with "apostates," which if determined by proof by 2 separate jws given to the elders, lacking repentance, could lead to being disfellowshipped.

    Blondie,

    What is an apostate in this context? Is it any former member of the religion or just guys and gals on the internet criticizing their doctrines and practices?

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Thanks, Tornapart. If you've been struggling with the organization for more than 50 years, what is it that is tearing you apart about it? Making a major change in one's theological outlook after so many years must be difficult. If you do decide to drift apart, will you remain a Christian or will you become an atheist?

    The rules to me, an outsider, sound beyond belief. I read about the absolute dedication that members of the FLDS community feel about that monster, Warren Jeffs, and that, too, makes me wonder how people and organizations control people. When part of my family became JWs back in the 70s, they cut off all ties with the family and refuse to this day to return phone calls. My sister called one of our cousins and said he treated her like dirt. "He sounded like he couldn't wait to get off the phone with me," she said.

    One of the things many people who experience Near Death Experiences (NDEs) talk about is the deep feeling of peace that envelopes them. They say their experiences are very real, not ethereal or indistinct like dreams. Everything they see is in color and three diminsions. The reason I mention them is that people of virtually all religions have similar experiences. It's not that Catholics experience them, and everyone else has hellish experiences. The notion that one church receives salvation and members of other faiths are damned is something that's missing from the NDEs. Some do have negative experiences, but these are people who have lived less than desirable lives. And even these are often treated with compassion when they beseech God for salvation. The people in the FLDS compound in Utah, Colorodo and Texas all believe that everyone other than themselves will be damned, and they, too, are preoccupied with Armageddon. They're taught that eventually all the people of the Earth will attack them, and only the power of God will prevail in their favor.

    The success of many of these groups relies on them isolating their members from the rest of the world. They, too, believe that the worst sin someone else can commit is apostasy. And the rules they're expected to follow are incredible. To people on the outside, these rules sound like pure fiction. If my church tried to control me like that, there would be an instant parting of the ways.

    When the JWs first offered me Bible courses, I figured it would be a good way to learn about them and how they viewed the Bible. There were no rules by my own church against my taking these courses or reading their material. But Holy Toledo! It only works one way. They would read a page or so and then ask me solicitous questions designed to elicit specific answers. If I replied in any other way they would re-ask the questions in other ways. But they weren't interested in my views, only in how I answered the questions in the book.

    So good luck in your decision, whatever it may be. Sometimes it's better just to stick with it if doing otherwise would disrupt your family or end in divorce. You can always ignore the rules and do what YOU think is best for YOU. I don't see anything in the scriptures, though, that would authorize a religion to make so many rules ostracizing you from the rest of the world. Especially a religion that admits it receives no revelation from God.

    Anyway, good luck. And thank you for your feedback and the answer regarding elders. It makes me wonder if anyone in the church is ordained in the religious sense. You know, by the laying on of hands? The problem about ordination is that you always have to have someone who ordained you to have someone who ordained them. But that's another topic.

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