Gayle, right on. No control will be given away. Tight control is the only thing keeping the slaves working! Any perceived weakness by the GB would mean the sheeple would leave. The GB will go down swinging in my opinion. I would love some huge shake up though, just to free my family.
My take on current direction of WTBS
by Cagefighter 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Cagefighter
Mushroom fed and DOC yall bring up good points.
Mushroom you are kind of going down the easiest path. I don't think any real skimming has taken place. I believe most of the GB etc, up until now have been just boring old dudes that believe the b.s. and see it as their job to serve the structure.
However, once the WTBS seperates from controlling the actual congo's and becomes strictly a publication biz then I could see a change. I could see the GB and writers beginning to take credit for books and articles or not, and feeling entitled to "royalites" which would strictly be the business of themselves and the WTBS now that the congo's are cut loose.
DOC, they can form all the corps they want to in the world but as long as the CO's and DO's are on their payroll they can't dodge legal liability. The CO's and DO's are the ones instructing the elder's. The CO's can remove elders which makes the WTBS liable in certain legal situations for what they do. This is what I am saying. The Circuits and Districts will have to form conferences and hire their own CO's and DO's that will serve at the pleasure of the memebers. This is how most protestant churches operate today.
For example. If you lived in Ohio, I could see a Midwest regional conference of JW's that would fulfill the role of Bethel now. It would hire and fire CO's, DO's, missionaries, oversee the BOE's, conduct elder school etc. This get's the WTBS out of the religion biz completely. Everything I am reading the instructions for elder's to form new corps for the KH's, the instructions given at elder school, etc...etc... indicates this is the only way they can move on and be comfortable.
Sure the WTBS might maintain a small office to support the World Wide work that will take contributions from the conferences and donate them to conference's in 3rd world countries so they can afford conventions and new KH's etc...
The other option would be to tighten control even more and have all duties handled by trained and ordained minister's from brookyn like CO's. We both know that won't happen. It will create a defacto clergy/layity class in the congo's
-
DesirousOfChange
DOC, they can form all the corps they want to in the world but as long as the CO's and DO's are on their payroll they can't dodge legal liability. The CO's and DO's are the ones instructing the elder's. The CO's can remove elders which makes the WTBS liable in certain legal situations for what they do.
But, if the COs, DOs, Bethel Reps, Etc are all "employees" of a BROKE corporation (keep the money and assets OUT of this corp), then there is nothing to sue for. The REAL cash & property can be held by a different corporation that has NO contact with the Congregations or any WT representatives. Under this kind of arrangement, I doubt the "corporate veil" of the WT$ Corp could be pierced. Only the WT Broke Corp could be attached in a lawsuit.
Kind of like Mega-Mall Inc owns the huge Mega-Mall Center. Macy's rents a big piece of the property and carries on business there. A Macy's employee commits an offense (sexual harrassment) and the victim sues the employee & Macys, but cannot not sue Mega-Mall Inc. If it so happens that Macys is close to insolvency/bankrupcy (and carries no insurance for such), then there is no money to be fought after.
WTS MONEYBAG INC (WT$MB Inc) owns all the property and a$$ets. WTS Religious Corp (WTSRC) dispatches the COs/DOs and directs the religious side of things such as congregational arrangements. If Elder Bob or even CO Bob commits some dastardly deed, the "victim" can sue Elder Bob, Cong of Elder Bob (COEB), and WTSRC.
Elder Bob is a broke window washer.
COEB has a couple $1000 in the bank but everything else is sent in to WT$MB Inc as donations on a regular basis. Plus WT$MB Inc rents the KH to COEB or holds a huge mortgage against value of KH property.
WTSRC owns no property, has very little assets, no private insurance coverage, just a bunch of low paid employees running a religion.
NONE of them have any significant assets, WHERE'S THE MONEY gonna come from? WT$MB Inc is nothing but a landlord and has no liability.
If you recall the Conti case, only one of the WTS Corps was a defendant in the lawsuit (I think the NY Corp). WTS of PA was released. With dozens of separate corps, the assets can be protected. It might not apply in existing cases, but it will for anything in the future. And even in existing cases, if the current Corps that could be liable are drained of assets, there won't be anything left to sue for. I'm sure the lawyers are hard at work on it.
Doc
-
Cagefighter
Well it would get very specific as to what each corp does. I think we are essentially saying the same thing, but your version would be a much less insulated way of doing things. The funds are co-mingled and they could never completely sever libability as long as NY was still appointing CO's and DO's that can fire Elder's from a central location as opposed to the member's of the congo's voting and appointing leadership. If the money goes to the Money Corp then they will have to finance to Religous side.
Many denominations are decentrailized like this. The Memebers have to approve the leadership some how and there are steps to remove them like an impeachment, regardless of what the conference or denominational hq says or feels. The clergy are actually employees serving at the pleasure of the members in many churches including mine. The denomination just ordains and certifies the clergy, like a plumbers union/guild. Oh you didn't like the master plumber we sent last week? Okay here's another.
I think what I am seeing is a complete backing away from running anything on the religious side. "Hey we just write books and magazines", it's up to the Congos do decided how and if to use them. This would protect them on a much better basis and simplify many things.
It would also lead to a slow dismantle of the org and save some face. After all by now even the GB has to realize their light is a little too dim to cut mustard and keep pace with the net.
Hey, you don't think we are giving them ideas do ya?
-
clarity
Cagefighter ...
Yeah they do a lot of skimming!
"Suiter wasn't replaced and remained a GB member until his death. One-time poster here, Maximus, a former Bethelite and CO, told us how Suiter came to a city, it seems to me was Baltimore, Maryland, on WT business where Maximus was a CO. Suiter called Maximus a few days earlier and invited him to lunch. Much to his surprise, they met at one of the most expensive restaurants in the city. Maximus was not happy about this because he was CO in one of the poorest sections of the city and it seemed to him to be out of order for them to eat at that place while JWs in his territory lived in extreme poverty.
During lunch, Suiter, the overseer of the Treasury Department, pulled out of the pockets of his very expensive suit, jewelry that he asked Maximus to make an offer on. Maximus had no money. He came into the circuit work right out of Bethel and he was incredulous at Suiter’s cavalier attitude.
Maximus said he saw lots of very fine jewelry during that lunch which Suiter had just thrown in different pockets. While he displayed gold chains, diamond rings, etc., he complained how he was constantly trying to get rid of the stuff that was willed to the Society by JWs. That’s why he was there, to sell jewelry at outlets. Even the flashy rings Suitor wore on his fingers were part of the loot. This experience was one that disgusted Maximus so much that it contributed towards his leaving the organization ".
c
-
steve2
With due respect, all the GB is doing is publicizing a CARE plan (Cover Arse Retain Existence).
No they are not relinquishing any control. Acting on legal advice, they seek to cover themselves so that threats of litigation are minimized.
- Look at the measured way in which formal announcements about ex-JWs are made.
- Look at the details that are devoted to proper procedures etc.
The spiritual light has flickered even more dimly across the decades whereas the legal light grows ever more brighter. T he CARE plan - beloved of corporations and companied the world over, religious and worldy alike - rules supreme.
-
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Only time will tell what direction WTBTS goes. I can't imagine that the GB would ever loosen the reins. The structure is strict authoritarianism with no margin for dissent. The liquidation of many of the branches is proof that they are trying to decrease the possibility of "independent thinking" by country branches and reducing them to country offices that are little more than mailboxes.
Their only actions toward decentralization would be in blame and liability. It's nothing new that they blame publishers for feeling disappointed when WTBTS prophecies fail. They don't want the blame centralized to the top for that. They push the blame all the way down to the publishers who foolishly didn't save for retirement or get health insurance because WT said the end was coming soooo soon.
WTBTS mostly seems to be increasing their distance from financial liability. I still think the move away from Congregation Book Studies in homes was to protect them from slip-and-fall lawsuits. And their efforts with their child molestation policy were trying to protect the corporation, but actually increased their guilt for calling the shots to the local congregations. WT wants to tell the congregations exactly what to do, but they don't want to get sued for giving crappy direction that endangers kids.
-
QC
Gage: good insight
My take is, this fits the Mt 24:45-51 footprint perfectly. Under Russell they headed in the right direction (got the essence right on the “end time” season start, 1914; but thru a 30,000 foot foggy lens). The JWs invention is a Rutherford’s off ramp into the “evil slave” wilderness.
Check www.laissezcom.com, links “Born Anew” and “Timeline, heading “Evil Slave” for details.
I appreciate having your insight.
QC
-
Scott77
bttt
-
Scott77
Hi CF,
I never knew you are a good analyst. Your take on current direction of WTBS is very interesting and informative.
Scott77