Are we Ex JW's just as cognitively dissonant as we were before?

by chapstick 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    No, because I try to apply rationalized logical on given subjects as they are presented to me,

    occasionally I've realisedi I've made the wrong conclusion upon receiving more information from the previous

    but I call that just being honestly human.

    The 9-11 conspiracy theories are just weakly speculative theories that are off balanced by

    acknowledged and known physics.

    Those buildings collapsed because they were not structured to take a direct hit from a large

    airliner and have also take the large amount of heat accumulated from the impact explosion.

    The new high rises to built there such as WTC 1 are.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    I particularly like this definition of "cognitive dissonance":

    "Cognitive dissonance is the term used to describe what happens to a person when he accepts multiple, conflicting information at the same time. Rather than have to deal with conflicting thoughts, a person almost "separates" himself from reality. He starts to deny anything is wrong and continues to tell people, "Everything is fine. Just wait until I get there. Then you'll see I was right." In reality, this leads to both a further detachment from reality and a further attachment to the group's values. And if a person were to question the conflicting information presented to him, he would probably be told, "Your question means you don't understand the material. Continue learning and then it will become clear." This "separation" occurs at about the same time that a person starts to lose his critical thinking..."

    From this website discussing the cult-like characteristics of Amway "Motivational Organizations"...

    http://www.cocs.com/jhoagland/amcult.html

  • Twitch
    Twitch

    Can you, personally, handle the truth?

    I get goosebumps in anticipation when I hear opening statements like this, lol.

    As regard the title and apparent angle, it's the hard sell right outta the gate and for me, that raises a flag (as it should, no pun intended) The implication is that large scale conspiricies are true and that contesting or rejecting these is a failure to objectively assess the situation because one is in a crisis of belief vs facts

    To imply that there is a sinister, behind the scenes invisible hand at work whose intent is to enslave and harm the masses is more analogous to witness belief than not IMO. Only the cause is different; the simple greed and corruption of people in power, not an invisible spirit bogeymen. If anything, I think it easier to be seduced by such claims and familiar lines of thinking than to be skeptical of same, especially when is in a vulnerable crisis of belief. There are xjws who dive right into it with fervor and rabidity not unlike that of the most hardcore dub. And to be fair, yes, there are xjw who outright reject said claims/theories with the same passion. And then there are those who don't really give a shite. What is obvious is that only those who voice their opinion are noticed.

    Now, I'm not one to paint the world with a rose colored brush by any means. I've no doubt of corruption, greed and plain evil in the world; this is fact. What I personally am skeptical about is the network of people and logistics required to secretly engineer such a colossal lie, such as 911, the moon landings or similar large scale conspiricies. Watergate is a prime example of only a small operation by a handful of professional liars and savage thugs who couldn't even pull off a simple burglary/coverup and when it all began to unravel, those involved deserted the ship like rats interested only in their own survival. Human nature at work that seems at odds with what it would take to keep such a lie alive. The more complex the machine, the more maintainence it needs and the easier it breaks down. This is a "truth"

    The way I see it, the believing jw doesn't have CG, just denial or wishful thinking with blinders on. There aren't multiple conflicting truths, only one. CG doesn't really kick in until one questions and doubts, when what is believed is at odds with what one sees, feels or experiences. Change is constant, human nature is not static. When an xjw finds a replacement worldview they're comfortable with, CG in this repect is greatly diminished, if not gone altogether. One has been freed to choose what to believe and once settled, truth has become less absolute and more personal.

    And it ain't no crime to have a strong opinion, whether it be for or against the topic at hand, or any for that matter. It's a good thing actually. 911 may be a conspiracy of a gov allowing, even planning to have 3000 of it's middle class registered voters killed, maybe we never landed on the moon, but I don't think so.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    I slightly disagree with you Twitch, Cog. Diss. does not become uncomfortable until one starts to doubt or question, what one feels sees and experiences, plus facts encountered, always are at odds with beliefs that have no proof to back them up.

    JW's are unknowingly suffering because of the constant need to try to "rationalise" their beliefs with the facts that bombard them on a daily basis.

    XJW's with a belief system that similarly has no proof, albeit containing very different beliefs from WT/JW's, are in a similar position, they fight a daily battle against logic and reality.

    I think most XJW's diminish the amount of Cog. Diss by adopting a belief system that, though unprovable, is still within the bounds of the possible, they come to this by honing their Critical Thinking skills first, then getting to where they are today by their own mental processes, not reliant upon another's opinion.

  • Sulla
    Sulla

    Well you've answered the OP sulla . . .

    That last post has got lashings of CD splattered all over it.

    Your thoughtful engagement is, as always, greatly appreciated, sizemik.

    Joey Jo-Jo: Sulla I am having a hard time understanding the points you are making, for me to understand you a bit better how would you describe cognitive dissonance in your own words?

    I am currently studying psychology and am heavily involved in studies regarding social psychology. Could you please show we how you came to the conclusion that dissonance is not a cognitive construct?

    Don't know that I've come to that conclusion. The first thing I asked on this thread was for a definition of cognitive dissonance beyond the popular one of holding two conflicting beliefs at once. I've asked lots of question in my posts on this subject; if you have some academic insight into this matter, it would be helpful if you'd share it.

    Zidd: Sulla, I can see clearly that you've never made a detailed comparison of the bible's "scientific" claims with actual scientific discoveries and studies...

    {sigh}. Were the bible a scientific text, this criticism might begin to make some sense. While you are at it, have you ever bothered to compare the scientific claims in the Iliad with current science? Very eye-opening...

    Sheesh.

    Twitch: The way I see it, the believing jw doesn't have CG, just denial or wishful thinking with blinders on. There aren't multiple conflicting truths, only one. CG doesn't really kick in until one questions and doubts, when what is believed is at odds with what one sees, feels or experiences. Change is constant, human nature is not static. When an xjw finds a replacement worldview they're comfortable with, CG in this repect is greatly diminished, if not gone altogether. One has been freed to choose what to believe and once settled, truth has become less absolute and more personal.

    I think I agree with you, Twitch. At least the first part.

  • darth frosty
    darth frosty

    um yeah?!? have you ever read any of the political threads?

    and i am talking about both sides.

  • chapstick
    chapstick

    OK, here's a prime example of cognitive dissonence. If anyone who is an unabiding Romney supporter and watches this PBS newscast, and has a mind for truth they would be cognitively dissonent if they continued to support him or vote for him, period. This is no different than a Jehovah's Witness who is either to lazy to watch it, poo-poos evidence as propaganda or pornography or refuses to believe it when they do see it. How are the two not different?

    www.domocracynow.org/2012/8/30/matt_taibbi_the_secret_to_mitt

    chappy

    I just keep splashing away...

  • Sulla
    Sulla

    And the shark done been jumped.

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "Were the bible a scientific text, this criticism might begin to make some sense. While you are at it, have you ever bothered to compare the scientific claims in the Iliad with current science? Very eye-opening..." Sulla, page 2

    Sigh....

    If you really want to scream, try the "Oddysey" [there. fixed it.], instead. Or the Hindu belief that the earth was a plate resting on the backs of elephants standing on a giant turtle. Or the Chinese belief that dragons caused natural disasters.

    I certainly would never claim that any ancient form of religious mythology was scientifically accurate - though I will say that the description of a volcanic eruption in Exodus 19: 16-19 is one of the best I've read, from any group of people ignorant of what a volcano actually was...

    Unfortunately, the Israelites believed the erupting volcano was their 'god' - and the 'god' himself agreed with their belief, which shows how much they and their 'god' knew about the actual inner workings of the planet.

  • Sulla
    Sulla

    Sorry. Now the shark done been well and truly jumped.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit