Some thoughts on the 'days' of Daniel 12

by Splash 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Splash

  Origin of the League of Nations - Woodrow Wilson:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Origin_of_the_League_of_Nations.png

  Jan 8th 1918 - Fourteen points laid down by President Wilson as the basis of world peace

  Jan 25th 1919 - League accepted in principle

  Apr 28th 1919 - Covenant adopted

  Jan 10th 1920 - League came into being; Secretariat established in London

  Jan 16th 1920 - First meeting at council of Paris

  According to the Society (Daniel's Prophecy (1999) chap 17 p.296):

  1260 days (Dan 12:7). This is worked backwards from the 1918 imprisonment date.

  21st Dec 1914 -----> 21st June 1918 (imprisoned). Note: this 3.5 years is actually 1278 days.

  1290 days (Dan 12:11). This is worked forwards from the date the 'disgusting thing' was 'placed'.

  25th Jan 1919 (League 'proposed') -----> 7th Aug 1922 (Cedar Point - 5th-13th Sept 1922)

  1335 days (Dan 12:12). This is assumed to run directly after the 1290 days have ended.

  7th Aug 1922 -----> 3rd April 1926 (In May 1926 Deliverance was released)

  According to mathematics and secularly confirmed dates:

  1260 days (Dan 12:7). This is worked backwards from the 1918 imprisonment date.

  8th Jan 1915 -----> 21st June 1918 (imprisoned). Note: this is actually 1260 days.

  1290 days (Dan 12:11). This is worked forwards from the date the 'disgusting thing' was 'placed'.

  10th Jan 1920 (League 'started') -----> 23rd Jul 1923

  1335 days (Dan 12:12). This is assumed to run directly after the 1290 days have ended.

  23rd Jul 1923 -----> 19th March 1927

  Questions:

  1. According to the Soc, nothing of significance happened on 21st Dec 1914. Why then is this the start date for the 1260 days?

  2. According to the Soc, the 1290 days ended in Aug '22, so why have Cedar Point on 5th - 13th Sept '22? That's 1319 days!

  3. Cedar Point was in Sept 1922, so why state it was "right about the time of" the end of the 1290 days (p.300 para 23), instead of more accurately saying it was within the beginning of the 1335 days

  4. Why assume the days run consecutively, what basis is there for this rather than 1260 days, +30 days, +45 days to complete the 1335 days?

  5. Dan 12:11 says "from the time... there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days."

  So why choose the League of Nations 'Proposed' date of Jan 1919 instead of the 'adoption' date of Apr 1919, or the 'start' date of Jan 1920?

  6. If the 1335 days run out in Apr 1926, why release Deliverance in May 1926? That's 1365 days!

  7. If these 'days' were so important that Daniel had an angel read them out to him, why have those dates now passed with so little importance, impact or relevance?
• 

  leaving_quietly

  The interpretations of the 1260, 1290 and 1335 days (especially the latter two) are laughable. Just as laughable is the interpretation of the 2300 days of Dan 8:13, 14. I'm really to believe that a convention, a book release and a talk / charter amendment are the fulfillment of these prophecies?

  Thanks for the secular dates. I haven't had time to research this all that much. It's on my long list of things making my head spin right now.
• 

  Nambo

  7. If these 'days' were so important that Daniel had an angel read them out to him, why have those dates now passed with so little importance, impact or relevance?

  Its because they have nothing to do with the JWs, the JWs just use them to try and make people think they have fullfilled Bible prophesy.

  In fact they havnt happened yet, the 1260 days are the same days as the 42 month or 3 1/2 year rulership of the Global Government that prevents any form of practising Christianity and kills all those that do not support it or except its 666 mark, none of which have happened yet.
• 

  Londo111
• 

  Bobcat

  bump
• 

  Phizzy

  What makes anyone think the Book of Daniel has any relevance to events later than the time of its writing, around the 2nd century B.C ?

  (Probably just before the death of Antiochus Epiphanes which was in 164 BC, the writer seems unaware of his death.)
• 

  Vidqun

  Here's a few thoughts on the days and times according to context, for those that are interested in the subject. Most of these point to the future. Days, Times, Weeks and Seasons in the Book of Daniel Jehovah God is the great Timekeeper. As ultimate Lawgiver and Judge, he, and only he, can change the times and seasons (Gen. 1:14; 8:22; Dan. 2:21; cf. Dan. 7:25). He has instituted the Heptad Cycle, which is evident in all his handiwork, e.g. the six creative “days,” concluding with His seventh rest period. The lives of his people would be governed by a seven day week, ending with the Sabbath observance (cf. Gen. 2:2-4; Ex. 20:8-10). All the days, times and weeks of Daniel are connected to a half or full Heptad Cycle. 7 times NWT Daniel 4:16 Let its heart be changed from that of mankind, and let the heart of a beast be given to it, and let seven times pass over it. This temporal phrase is repeated four times in Chapter 4 (vv. 16, 23, 25, 32), emphasizing its importance. In all likelihood, seven years would pass until Nebuchadnezzar would be reinstated. This is its primary fulfillment. Time, times and half a time NWT Daniel 7:25 And he will speak even words against the Most High, and he will harass continually the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One. And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, and times and half a time [1 + 2 + ½ = 3 ½ times (3 ½ years)]. Under the auspices of the big horn, God’s people will be intensely persecuted for a period of three and a half years. They will actually be under his control for the duration of this time. Afterwards the beast will be disposed of, and rulership will be handed over to “the holy ones of the Supreme one” (cf. Dan. 7:26, 27). 2300 evenings [and] mornings NWT Daniel 8:14 So he said to me, Until two thousand three hundred evenings [and] mornings [= 6 years and 4 months]; and [the] holy place will certainly be brought into its right condition. Under the auspices of the small horn or fierce king, control of an army would be relinquished. The constant feature will be “given over” in order for it to be trampled alongside the army (cf. Dan. 8:12, 13). This period will be just over six years in length. Six is an imperfect number, falling short of seven years by more than 7 months (cf. Rev. 13:18). The horn will then be disposed of by “the Prince of princes” (cf. Dan. 8:25). Seventy sevens NWT Daniel 9:24 There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. For this phrase to be synchronized with the appearance of the Messiah (Hebrew), otherwise known as the Christ (Greek), it will have to be adjusted to seventy weeks (of years): 70 weeks x 7 = 490 years (cf. Dan. 9:24, 26). Appointed time, appointed times, and a half NWT Daniel 12:7 And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right [hand] and his left [hand] to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite, It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half [3 ½ appointed years]. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish. This appointed period of persecution, lasting three and a half years, has been fixed under oath. The persecution, coming from both the King of the North, and his followers, and the King of the South, and his allies, will last until the hand (or power) of God’s people has been completely shattered. Interestingly, this consists again of half of a seven year cycle. 1290 days NWT Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. After the constant feature has been removed, “a disgusting thing of desolation” would be placed in a unique way for it to fulfill its final purpose (cf. Dan. 8:11, 12; Rev. 18:15-17). This period would last 1290 days. 1335 days NWT Daniel 12:12 Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days! Indeed, happy are those that survive the great tribulation (cf. Matt. 5:5; 25:21, 23, 34; Rev. 7:9, 10). This period will last 1335 days. 2625 days Sum total of above two periods (1290 + 1335) = 2625 days, exceeds a full seven year cycle (= 2520 days). Conclusion: After a seven year cycle, God would have completed the clean-up. This would initiate the next seven year cycle of burying the dead and clearing the debris (cf. Ezek. 38:9, 13).
• 

  cofty

  paragraphs!
• 

  Vidqun

  Let me try again, this time with spaces. Here's a few thoughts on the days and times according to context, for those that are interested in the subject. Most of these point to the future. Days, Times, Weeks and Seasons in the Book of Daniel Jehovah God is the great Timekeeper. As ultimate Lawgiver and Judge, he, and only he, can change the times and seasons (Gen. 1:14; 8:22; Dan. 2:21; cf. Dan. 7:25). He has instituted the Heptad Cycle, which is evident in all his handiwork, e.g. the six creative “days,” concluding with His seventh rest period. The lives of his people would be governed by a seven day week, ending with the Sabbath observance (cf. Gen. 2:2-4; Ex. 20:8-10). All the days, times and weeks of Daniel are connected to a half or full Heptad Cycle. 7 times NWT Daniel 4:16 Let its heart be changed from that of mankind, and let the heart of a beast be given to it, and let seven times pass over it. This temporal phrase is repeated four times in Chapter 4 (vv. 16, 23, 25, 32), emphasizing its importance. In all likelihood, seven years would pass until Nebuchadnezzar would be reinstated. This is its primary fulfillment. Time, times and half a time NWT Daniel 7:25 And he will speak even words against the Most High, and he will harass continually the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One. And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, and times and half a time [1 + 2 + ½ = 3 ½ times (3 ½ years)]. Under the auspices of the big horn, God’s people will be intensely persecuted for a period of three and a half years. They will actually be under his control for the duration of this time. Afterwards the beast will be disposed of, and rulership will be handed over to “the holy ones of the Supreme one” (cf. Dan. 7:26, 27). 2300 evenings [and] mornings NWT Daniel 8:14 So he said to me, Until two thousand three hundred evenings [and] mornings [= 6 years and 4 months]; and [the] holy place will certainly be brought into its right condition. Under the auspices of the small horn or fierce king, control of an army would be relinquished. The constant feature will be “given over” in order for it to be trampled alongside the army (cf. Dan. 8:12, 13). This period will be just over six years in length. Six is an imperfect number, falling short of seven years by more than 7 months (cf. Rev. 13:18). The horn will then be disposed of by “the Prince of princes” (cf. Dan. 8:25). Seventy sevens NWT Daniel 9:24 There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. For this phrase to be synchronized with the appearance of the Messiah (Hebrew), otherwise known as the Christ (Greek), it will have to be adjusted to seventy weeks (of years): 70 weeks x 7 = 490 years (cf. Dan. 9:24, 26). Appointed time, appointed times, and a half NWT Daniel 12:7 And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right [hand] and his left [hand] to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite, It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half [3 ½ appointed years]. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish. This appointed period of persecution, lasting three and a half years, has been fixed under oath. The persecution, coming from both the King of the North, and his followers, and the King of the South, and his allies, will last until the hand (or power) of God’s people has been completely shattered. Interestingly, this consists again of half of a seven year cycle. 1290 days NWT Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. After the constant feature has been removed, “a disgusting thing of desolation” would be placed in a unique way for it to fulfill its final purpose (cf. Dan. 8:11, 12; Rev. 18:15-17). This period would last 1290 days. 1335 days NWT Daniel 12:12 Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days! Indeed, happy are those that survive the great tribulation (cf. Matt. 5:5; 25:21, 23, 34; Rev. 7:9, 10). This period will last 1335 days. 2625 days Sum total of above two periods (1290 + 1335) = 2625 days, exceeds a full seven year cycle (= 2520 days). Conclusion: After a seven year cycle, God would have completed the clean-up. This would initiate the next seven year cycle of burying the dead and clearing the debris (cf. Ezek. 38:9, 13).
• 

  Vidqun

  Sorry, it rejects my efforts to put in spaces. Let's try again. Here's a few thoughts on the days and times according to context, for those that are interested in the subject. Most of these point to the future. Days, Times, Weeks and Seasons in the Book of Daniel Jehovah God is the great Timekeeper. As ultimate Lawgiver and Judge, he, and only he, can change the times and seasons (Gen. 1:14; 8:22; Dan. 2:21; cf. Dan. 7:25). He has instituted the Heptad Cycle, which is evident in all his handiwork, e.g. the six creative “days,” concluding with His seventh rest period. The lives of his people would be governed by a seven day week, ending with the Sabbath observance (cf. Gen. 2:2-4; Ex. 20:8-10). All the days, times and weeks of Daniel are connected to a half or full Heptad Cycle. 7 times NWT Daniel 4:16 Let its heart be changed from that of mankind, and let the heart of a beast be given to it, and let seven times pass over it. This temporal phrase is repeated four times in Chapter 4 (vv. 16, 23, 25, 32), emphasizing its importance. In all likelihood, seven years would pass until Nebuchadnezzar would be reinstated. This is its primary fulfillment. Time, times and half a time NWT Daniel 7:25 And he will speak even words against the Most High, and he will harass continually the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One. And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, and times and half a time [1 + 2 + ½ = 3 ½ times (3 ½ years)]. Under the auspices of the big horn, God’s people will be intensely persecuted for a period of three and a half years. They will actually be under his control for the duration of this time. Afterwards the beast will be disposed of, and rulership will be handed over to “the holy ones of the Supreme one” (cf. Dan. 7:26, 27). 2300 evenings [and] mornings NWT Daniel 8:14 So he said to me, Until two thousand three hundred evenings [and] mornings [= 6 years and 4 months]; and [the] holy place will certainly be brought into its right condition. Under the auspices of the small horn or fierce king, control of an army would be relinquished. The constant feature will be “given over” in order for it to be trampled alongside the army (cf. Dan. 8:12, 13). This period will be just over six years in length. Six is an imperfect number, falling short of seven years by more than 7 months (cf. Rev. 13:18). The horn will then be disposed of by “the Prince of princes” (cf. Dan. 8:25). Seventy sevens NWT Daniel 9:24 There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. For this phrase to be synchronized with the appearance of the Messiah (Hebrew), otherwise known as the Christ (Greek), it will have to be adjusted to seventy weeks (of years): 70 weeks x 7 = 490 years (cf. Dan. 9:24, 26). Appointed time, appointed times, and a half NWT Daniel 12:7 And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right [hand] and his left [hand] to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite, It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half [3 ½ appointed years]. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish. This appointed period of persecution, lasting three and a half years, has been fixed under oath. The persecution, coming from both the King of the North, and his followers, and the King of the South, and his allies, will last until the hand (or power) of God’s people has been completely shattered. Interestingly, this consists again of half of a seven year cycle. 1290 days NWT Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. After the constant feature has been removed, “a disgusting thing of desolation” would be placed in a unique way for it to fulfill its final purpose (cf. Dan. 8:11, 12; Rev. 18:15-17). This period would last 1290 days. 1335 days NWT Daniel 12:12 Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days! Indeed, happy are those that survive the great tribulation (cf. Matt. 5:5; 25:21, 23, 34; Rev. 7:9, 10). This period will last 1335 days. 2625 days Sum total of above two periods (1290 + 1335) = 2625 days, exceeds a full seven year cycle (= 2520 days). Conclusion: After a seven year cycle, God would have completed the clean-up. This would initiate the next seven year cycle of burying the dead and clearing the debris (cf. Ezek. 38:9, 13).