Evidence For Impending Change Re: "Loose Conduct" to "Brazen Conduct"

by DarioKehl 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • BluesBrother

    "Now, we've had additional understanding on this scripture.

    Says who? ...Who has the right to alter the scholarly work of the NW Translation Committee?

    The current G B believe they are "On a mission from God" as my alter ego Jake Blues once said...Like that character they are doomed to fail

  • outsmartthesystem

    I find it difficult to believe that any elder body (even the most crooked and heinous) would start DFing people just for being late to meetings or not getting enough service time in. But I could easily see more and more people getting the boot for seeing rated R movies or listening to "bad" music etc. Basically.....if the elders have a feeling like you are engaging in such disapproved behavior BECAUSE you are trying to make waves then they'll nail you. Personally I just think it would be hard for them to showcase that being late for meetings or not getting enough service time is TRYING to make waves.

    I hope it happens. Aside from the fact that more and more lives will be up-ended via the disfellowshipping tag....i think this could be a good thing. If people start getting DF'd for ridiculous things.....that just means that this organization is one step closer to implosion

  • outsmartthesystem

    "The WTS is micro-managing and bureaucratic, but not even they would do so much overkill."

    But that's their secret. The more they micro-manage....the more the elders think that God is really directing them.

  • minimus

    I could see this explanation has very possible.....Interesting.

  • apostatethunder

    What is brazen is the way they interfere in people’s lives, and as WTWizard says how they

    How they use people’s belief in God, to keep them in an infantile state, depriving them of becoming the person they could have been had they had other teachers with their best interests at heart, rather than liars that just seek their own interests.

    It is certainly brazen, the way they treat people that just don’t agree with the way they interpret the Bible, or how they become the judges of people’s private lives.

    hold people hostage trying to prevent them from doing things to build up their souls.
  • minimus

    What one elder considers brazen and another, could be two very different things.

  • Pistoff

    Though this is not an exhaustive list, brazen
    conduct may be involved in the following if the
    wrongdoer has an insolent, contemptuous attitudemade evident by a practice of these things:
    • Willful, continued, unnecessary association
    with disfellowshipped nonrelatives despite
    repeated counsel.-Matt. 18:17b; 1 Cor. 5:11, 13;
    2 John 10, 11; w81 9/15 pp. 25-26.
    • Child sexual abuse: This would include fondling
    of breasts, an explicitly immoral proposal,
    showing pornography to a child, voyeurism, indecent
    exposure, and so forth.
    Continuing to date or pursue a romantic
    relationship with a person though not legally
    or Scripturally free to marry
    , despite repeated
    counsel and generally after a warning
    talk to the congregation

    Note the language manipulation:

    The 'insolent attitude' is shown by continuing to do those things. This is after they just finished saying that 'brazen conduct' is BOTH the serious violation of God's law, and an insolent attitude about it.

    In the very next paragraph, they REDEFINE 'brazen conduct' to say that continuing to do it is an insolent attitude.

    THAT is some manipulation.

    This looks like a set up to DF for association with df'd persons and marrying non-jws.

  • DesirousOfChange

    This looks like a set up to DF for association with df'd persons and marrying non-jws.

    Actually, this looks like a set up to DF anyone they feel a need to be rid of: cause any trouble? you are brazen in your attitude.


  • undercover

    Actually, this looks like a set up to DF anyone they feel a need to be rid of: cause any trouble? you are brazen in your attitude.

    yea... it's a catchall.

    Anyone who starts to step out of line and doesn't react to counsel according to what is expected can be found guilty of 'brazen conduct'.

    but they're sneaky about these things. They introduce the phrase. It's in the books for awhile, then they step up the use of the word, the application of it in articles. Then the first few cases of 'brazen conduct' DFings occur. Within a few years, getting DFd for brazen conduct is just as everyday as getting DFd for fornication. And instead of it being related to sexual situations, they can pin this 'conduct' on anyone who doesn't fall in line and obey.

  • krejames

    I can confirm that the "repeated viewing of pornography" was discussed in a recent question from readers and is now considered a disfellowshipping offence - I think the words were "serious loose conduct" but don't quote me on that, as I may well be wrong. I'll see if I can find the reference...

    Having said that, it is pretty difficult to get disfellowshipped these days. I'm embarrassed to admit I have had 5 (yes FIVE!) Judicial Committees since 2007 (not for pornography). Traumatic as they were, I was never disfellowshipped. Probably should have been. In fact I have to hand it to the elders, they were very loving (even the really serious one turned out to be really nice). They tried their best to be sympathetic and understanding but they haven't been able to stop my doubts. I'm still in because of family but mentally I'm pretty much almost out.

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