Why wasn't the Issue of Universal Sovereignty raised amongst the angels long before Adam and Eve

by yadda yadda 2 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    If there were millions of angels in existence long before Adam and Eve were created, how come God's sovereignty wasn't challenged in heaven long before the garden of Eden?

    Why did this so-called issue only begin when Adam and Eve appeared? How could there not be a single rebellious angel before the appearance of humans?

    And why is it that sin and death befell the human race after Adam and Eve's 'rebellion' but not the angels? Humans are only a little lower than the angels, so how come the rebellious angels do not age and die, only humans?

  • mP

    Because that idea does not exist in the Bible, everyone has just made that idea up! Of course im wrong show me a scripture that even says half of what you just asked.

  • TimeBandit

    This reminds me of the movie 'The Prophecy' with Christopher Walken. Good ponderings Yadda Yadda. Why didn't the issue get started before the 'talking monkeys' were created?

    Maybe the angels (including Satan, their spokesman) waited for us to come along in order to shift the focus onto us diverting god's attention away from them. Then, once Satan, Adam, and eve challenged god then some of the other angels came out of the closet and openly joined Satan to further distract god.

    That makes me wonder how many angels are faders like some of you here on the forum...Maybe some of the angels currently in 'good standing' are 'mentally out' like ElderElite? How many angels are Just waiting for the right time to orchestrate a full blown regime change?


  • Sulla

    Perhpas this question is better phrased as another core teaching of the JWs that turns out, after a moment's reflection, to have no grounding in scripture, tradition, or logic. Why wasn't the issue of universal sovereignty raised prior to the Garden? Why, indeed!

  • jgnat

    I'm not sure how Satan's fall is covered in WTS theology, but didn't his fall (Isa 14:12-14) happen before the garden of Eden incident? Otherwise, how could he have tempted Eve? Unless you think the snake did it.

    Therefore the great rivalry and the great test of sovereignty would have come from Satan.

  • tornapart

    yadda yadda 2 :- " Why did this so-called issue only begin when Adam and Eve appeared? "

    It didn't. It only began when the WT appeared.

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    Excellent musings YADDA YADDA. . .

    This is like one of the questions I would ask as a kid during our "family study", and then get the shit beaten out of me for being smart.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Stop making sense, op.

    Other questions are:

    Why start with building the most power creations first (angels), then the least (animals), then the intermediate (man)? Shouldn't you start with working the bugs out as you work your way up? Obviously YHWH had a faulty design in man AND angels in the free will arena: God should've worked it out with man BEFORE proceeding to angels, with beta-testing, if Gods "perfection" ain't all that !!

    The reason why it's goofy is its just a story, made by men: you find similar continuity errors in movies, TV, books, etc which SHOULD be a clue that it's a work of fantasy, like Mother Goose (although people don't feel compelled to waste their lives over Mother Goose, under threat of death if they don't preach about how great the story is).

    If the story were submitted for a creative writing assignment, it would be handed back with a low grade, with words written by the teacher on the paper stating, "concept is weak: re-do scenario to something more plausible".

    PS the serpent being Satan is also a late interpretation added by Xians: it's simply a serpent, a trickster figure, according to ancient and modern-day Jews.

  • jeremiah18:5-10

    I've pondered this topic for a while now. I could believe it did occur prior to Adam and Eve. I can't prove it scripturally of course. It seems to me that it would fit better with scripture though if it did happen that way and if earth and humans were specifically created as a "proving" ground to establish it. It could be that the "test" is to see if creatures that couldn't see God would choose to submit to Him. Then those who did could be "promoted" to heavenly life. The others, well, guess they're just SOL. Of course that doesn't mesh with the idea of Jehovah being a "God of Love". Of course why does that matter if life here was just to serve the sole purpose of resolving the issue. It would be consistent with "the earth not being created to totter". The earth would serve its purpose as a proving ground and then no need for it anymore. Kind of a morbid thought though and this has held me back from fully buying in to it.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Fornapart said:

    "It didn't. It only began when the WT appeared."

    Sorry, but they didn't invent the issue of sovereignty: it's much older in Xianity than the JWs.

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