Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 08-05-2012 WT Study (REVEALER)

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    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 08-05-12 WT Study (JUNE 15, 2012, pages 7-13)(REVEALER)

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    “Truly the God of you

    men is a God of gods

    and a Lord of kings

    and a Revealer of

    secrets.”—DAN. 2:47.


    Note how often the WTS makes assertions about historical references and interpretations without any corrobating info. Even checking the chart with pictures on the URL above is no proof.

    99.999% of jws will not be able to explain any of this to another jw, let alone someone studying with jws. Yet they will bet their life and the lives of their loved ones on “revealed” prophecies that have changed many times over since 1876 and the first explanation of a prophecy by the WTS.

    Did Jesus’ presence begin in 1874 or 1914; did he become king in 1878 or 1914? So from 1876 to 1943, Russell (until 1916 his death) and the WTS followers believed that Christ’s presence began in 1874.

    Notice how the WTS puts their explanation in the passive voice or blames others not Russell. Why did God allow Russell to be misled by man-made bible chronology?

    *** w74 8/15 pp.506-507***

    In 1877, Russell joined Nelson H. Barbour in publishing the book ThreeWorlds,andtheHarvestofThisWorld.It indicated that the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 would be preceded by a forty-year period to open with a three-and-a-half-year harvest beginning in 1874 C.E. According to Bible chronology thereafter adopted, it was understood that 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth ended in 1872, whereas six millenniums of human sin concluded and the seventh millennium began in 1874. Christ’s presence was thought to have begun in October 1874, at the start of the great antitypical Jubilee.—Lev. chap. 25; Rev. 20:4.

    From that understanding, it was thought that the “chaste virgin” class began going forth to meet the Bridegroom in 1874. (2 Cor. 11:2) Hence, when C. T. Russell began publishing a new religious magazine in July 1879, it was called “Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence.”It was heralding Christ’s presence as having begun in 1874. This invisible presence was expected to continue until the Gentile Times ended in 1914, when the Gentile nations would be destroyed and the remnant of the “chaste virgin” class would be glorified with their Bridegroom in heaven by death and resurrection to live in the spirit. (1 Cor. 15:42-44) Thus would the “discreet virgin” class enter through the door into the wedding.

    *** Thousands Years book chap. 11 p.206***


    It is true that the editor and publisher of Zion’sWatchTowerandHeraldofChrist’sPresencecalculated that the “presence” or parousia of the heavenly Bridegroom began in the year 1874 C.E. Also, that the date of the first man’s creation by Jehovah God was in the year 4128 B.C.E., which meant that six thousand years of man’s existence on the earth ended in the year 1872 C.E., as calculated by Russell and his associates. This reckoning began to be announced on the front page of Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence beginning with the issue of July 1, 1906, and this practice continued down through the issue of September 15, 1928. For instance, on the first of such mentioned issues appeared the date of issue: “July 1, A.D. 1906—A.M., 6034”; whereas the dating of the last mentioned issue was: “Anno Mundi 6056—September 15, 1928.” The AnnoMundi or “Year of the World” date was calculated to be the year 4128 before our Common Era.

    *** ka chap.11 pp.209-210 par.55***

    In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book The Truth Shall Make You Free.” In its chapter 11, entitled “The Count of Time,” it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia. The millennium that was to be marked by the detaining of Satan the Devil enchained in the abyss and by the reign of the 144,000 joint heirs with Christ in heavenly glory was therefore yet in the future. What, then, about the parousia (presence) of Christ? Page 324 of the above book positively says: “The King’s presence or parousia began in 1914.” Also, in the Watchtower issue of July 15, 1949 (page 215, paragraph 22), the statement is made: “ . . . Messiah, the Son of man, came into Kingdom power A.D. 1914 and . . . this constitutes his second coming and the beginning of his second parousía or presence.”

    *** ka chap.12 p.228 par.37***

    Only with the return of the Lord Jesus Christ and his parousia or presence would the culmination come in the fulfillment of the parable of the “talents.” In the latter half of the past nineteenth century it was thought that the Lord had returned in the year 1874 C.E. and that with that year his invisible presence in spirit had begun.

    *** Salvation book chap.16 p.287 par.12***

    According to an inaccurate chronology that had been worked out from the King James Authorized Version Bible , Russell calculated that Christ’s “presence” had begun in the year 1874 C.E., unseen to human eyes and seen only by the eye of faith. This was why, when he began publishing a new religious magazine in defense of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ, Russell entitled it “Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence.”


    What details about the future

    has Jehovah revealed to us ?

    What do the first six heads of

    the wild beast represent?

    What relationship do we find

    between the wild beast and

    the image seen by Nebuchadnezzar?

    WHICH governments will be dominating

    the earth when God’s Kingdom brings

    an end to human rulership?


    1, 2. What has Jehovah revealed to us, and why has he

    done so?

    We know the answer—it has been disclosed to us by the “Revealer

    of secrets,” Jehovah God. He enables us to

    discern the identity of those governments through

    the writings of the prophet Daniel and the apostle



    “we” know the answer—enables “us” to discern so do they have a turd (mouse) in their pocket?

    According to the WTS any revealing is done through a special subset of the anointed and only men and only as a group, but no one can say HOW the holy spirit reveals it, 1) reading the Bible, 2) praying for holy spirit 3) special anointing as future rulers/priests with Christ.

    All things that any anointed jw is said to be in receipt of.

    2 Jehovah revealed to those men a series of visions

    involving a succession of beasts. He also told

    Daniel the meaning of a visionary dream depicting

    an immense metal image. Jehovah had those

    accounts recorded and preserved in the Bible for

    our benefit. (Rom. 15:4) He did so to strengthen our

    hope that soon his Kingdom will crush all human

    governments.—Dan. 2:44.


    Told Daniel through “visions”—any visions being handed out to Russell, Rutherford, Knorr, Franz, or any anointed jws?

    Was Daniel able to prove to the Jews of his time that his prophecies were true? The “obvious” ones:

    (Deuteronomy 18:20-22) 20 “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’

    *** it-1p. 1213Interpretation***

    The meaning of some prophecies was obvious , hence requiring no interpretation, as when the prophet was used to foretell that the Judeans would ‘go into captivity to the king of Babylon for seventy years’ or that Babylon would become ‘a desolate waste.’ The time of the fulfillment, of course, was not always known, though in some cases this, too, was explicitly stated.

    3. In order to understand prophecy accurately, what do we

    first need to comprehend, and why?

    3 Taken together, the accounts of Daniel and John

    not only identify eight kings, or human rulerships,

    but also show the sequence in which those powers

    would appear. However, we can accurately understand

    those prophecies only if we comprehend

    the meaning of the very first prophecy recorded in

    the Bible. Why so? Because the outworking of that

    prophecy is the uniting theme of the Bible. It is, in

    a way, the cord on which all other prophecies hang.


    Was the intent to leave people hanging from Daniel’s time to the end of the first century? Did Christians then understand the coupling of these 2 books?

    WE can accurately understand but only being SPOON FED by the WTS/FDS/GB

    If WE comprehend…the cord…what happened to Genesis 3:15?

    How does the WTS get past their misunderstandings? Does it explain flipflops that start with an “understanding” change to another and come back to the original: Superior authorities, scream when raped, resurrection for those in Sodom and Gomorrah, organ transplants.

    *** jv chap.31 pp.708-709***

    Jehovah’s dealings with his chosen servants in Bible times confirm that clear understanding of his will and purposes often comes gradually. Thus, Abraham did not fully understand how Jehovah’s purpose in connection with the “seed” would work out. (Gen. 12:1-3, 7; 15:2-4; compare Hebrews 11:8.) Daniel did not grasp the final outcome of the prophecies he recorded. (Dan. 12:8, 9) Jesus, when on earth, admitted that he did not know the day and hour that the present system of things would end. (Matt. 24:36) The apostles did not at first understand that Jesus’ Kingdom would be heavenly, that it was not to be established in the first century, and that even Gentiles may inherit it.—Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6, 7; 10:9-16, 34, 35; 2 Tim. 4:18; Rev. 5:9, 10.

    It should not surprise us that in modern times too, Jehovah has often led his people as a progressive organization, gradually enlightening them as to Bible truths. It is not the truths themselves that change. Truth remains truth. Jehovah’s will and purpose, as outlined in the Bible, remain fixed. (Isa. 46:10) But their understanding of these truths gets progressively clearer “at the proper time,” Jehovah’s due time. (Matt. 24:45; compare Daniel 12:4, 9.) At times, because of human error or misguided zeal, their viewpoint may need to be adjusted.

    For example, at various times in the modern-day history of Jehovah’s Witnesses, their zeal and enthusiasm for the vindication of Jehovah’s sovereignty have led to premature expectations as to when the end of Satan’s wicked system of things would come. (Ezek. 38:21-23) But Jehovah has not revealed in advance the exact time. (Acts 1:7) Hence, Jehovah’s people have had to adjust their views in this matter.


    4. Who make up the seed of the woman, and what will that

    seed do?

    4 Soon after the rebellion in Eden, Jehovah made

    a promise that a “woman” would produce

    a “seed.”* (Read Genesis 3:15.)

    That seed would eventually bruise the

    serpent, Satan, in the head. Jehovah later

    revealed that the seed would come

    through Abraham, belong to the nation

    of Israel, be a Judean, and be a descendant

    of King David. (Gen. 22:15-18; 49:10; Ps. 89:3, 4;

    Luke 1:30-33) The principal part of that seed proved to be

    Christ Jesus. (Gal. 3:16) The secondary

    part of the seed is made up of the spirit-anointed members

    of the Christian congregation. (Gal. 3:26-29) Jesus and these

    anointed ones unite to form God’s Kingdom,

    the instrument with which God

    will crush Satan.—Luke 12:32; Rom.


    *This woman represents Jehovah’s wifelike organization

    that is made up of spirit creatures in heaven. —Isa. 54:1;

    Gal. 4:26; Rev. 12:1, 2.


    Was the serpent identified as Satan or Devil in Genesis? No.

    Why did God select a Benjaminite to be the first king of Israel if the seed was to come through Judah? Did he expect Saul to fail or his descendants? How long did it take for David’s descendants to prove failures, his son Solomon who died an apostate, or his grandson Rheoboam who had ten tribes ripped away from his rule? Hmm?

    How many jws know that originally the WTS call Jesus the head of the Christ, and the anointed the body of Christ…combined to be called The Christ?

    5, 6. (a) How many great powers do Daniel

    and John identify? (b)What do the heads of the

    wild beast of Revelation stand for?

    5 That first prophecy given in Eden

    also stated that Satan would produce a

    “seed.” His seed would express enmity,

    or hatred, for the seed of the woman.

    Who make up the seed of the serpent?

    All those who imitate Satan’s

    hatred of God and oppose God’s people.

    Throughout history, Satan has organized

    his seed into various political movements,

    or kingdoms. (Luke 4:5, 6) However,

    only relatively few human

    kingdoms have exerted a major influence

    on God’s people, whether the

    nation of Israel or the congregation of

    anointed Christians. Why is this fact

    significant? Because it explains why the

    visions of Daniel and John describe a total

    of only eight such great powers.


    Remember Satan is not correlated to the serpent in Genesis nor known to Adam and Eve as such.

    Who are the seed of the serpent…honestly, the WTS should say all non-jws. The WTS says they are in Satan’s control knowingly or unknowingly and ignorance is that a safe position.

    It is easy to identify the nation of Israel historically, but has the WTS identified that their members only are the congregation of God?

    6 At the close of the first century C.E.,

    the resurrected Jesus gave the apostle

    John a series of stunning visions. (Rev.

    1:1) In one of them, John saw the Devil,

    represented as a dragon, standing on

    the shore of a vast sea. (Read Revelation

    13:1, 2.) John also saw a strange beast

    rise from that sea and receive great authority

    from the Devil. An angel later

    indicates to John that the seven heads

    of a scarlet beast, which is an image of

    the beast of Revelation 13:1, represent

    “seven kings,” or governments. (Rev. 13:

    14, 15; 17:3, 9, 10) At the time of John’s

    writing, five of those had fallen, one was

    currently in power, and one had “not yet

    arrived.” What is the identity of those

    kingdoms, or world powers? Let us

    consider each of the heads of the beast described

    in Revelation. We will also see

    how the writings of Daniel added detailed

    insights into many of these kingdoms,

    sometimes centuries before they

    came into existence.


    So has the WTS/FDS/GB received any visions today? How many of you seen the WTS define “prophesy” as proclaim God’s message? Notice no scripture supporting the first statement in this quote.

    *** w71 1/1 p.32***

    Since today we have the complete inspired Scriptures , God is not giving any more inspired visions or dreams. However, Jehovah’s people today are seeing the fulfillment of many of the inspired visions and dreams that God’s servants had in ancient times, and they are even having a share in their being fulfilled. They are having a share in the fulfillment of the prophecy, “your sons and your daughters will certainly prophesy.” (Joel 2:28) Not that these prophesy in the sense of foretelling events under inspiration, but rather in that they are making public proclamation of the inspired dreams and visions long ago recorded.

    If Daniel was adding “detailed insights” how was it that when these nations came to be that people living at those times did not see the fulfillment as it was being fulfilled?


    7. What does the first head represent, and


    7 The first head of the beast represents

    Egypt . Why? Because Egypt was

    the first major power to express enmity

    toward God’s people. The descendants

    of Abraham—through whom

    the promised seed of the woman would

    come—grew numerous in Egypt. Then,

    Egypt oppressed Israel. Satan attempted

    to wipe out God’s people before the

    seed could arrive. How? By motivating

    Pharaoh to execute all male Israelite

    children. Jehovah thwarted that attempt

    and liberated his people from enslavement

    to Egypt. (Ex. 1:15-20; 14:13) Later

    he established the Israelites in the

    Promised Land.


    First head –Egypt?

    How is it that there is no mention of this history with Israel in Egypt’s extensive history, or the history of nations nearby that were in existence?

    Today does Jewish heritage come through the man or the woman? Traditionally, today through the mother.

    The Torah does not specifically state anywhere that matrilineal descent should be used; however, there are several passages in the Torah where it is understood that the child of a Jewish woman and a non-Jewish man is a Jew, and several other passages where it is understood that the child of a non-Jewish woman and a Jewish man is not a Jew.

    In Deuteronomy 7:1-5, in expressing the prohibition against intermarriage , G-d says "he [i.e., the non-Jewish male spouse] will cause your child to turn away from Me and they will worship the gods of others." No such concern is expressed about the child of a non-Jewish female spouse. From this, we infer that the child of a non-Jewish male spouse is Jewish (and can therefore be turned away from Judaism), but the child of a non-Jewish female spouse is not Jewish (and therefore turning away is not an issue).

    Leviticus 24:10 speaks of the son of an Israelite woman and an Egyptian man as being "among the community of Israel" (i.e., a Jew).

    Remember though that this Promised Land came with the goal of genocide, the execution of all men, women, and children in Canaan…so Pharaoh tried the same solution with the Israelites, though evidently women did not count yet.

    8. What is the identity of the second head, and

    what did it attempt to do?

    8 The second head of the beast represents

    Assyria . This mighty kingdom

    also attempted to wipe out God’s people.

    True, Jehovah used Assyria as his

    instrument to punish the ten-tribe kingdom

    for their idolatry and rebellion.

    However, Assyria then attacked Jerusalem.

    Satan may have had the

    goal of obliterating the royal line that

    would eventually lead to Jesus. That

    assault was not part of Jehovah’s purpose,

    and he miraculously delivered

    his faithful people by destroying the

    invaders.—2 Ki. 19:32-35; Isa. 10:5, 6,




    Another wipeout goal…It turned out that way for the ten-tribe kingdom as a while.

    Satan MAY HAVE had the goal….NO SCRIPTURE?

    God saved the 2-tribe kingdom to save the kingship and the future Messiah, not the individuals. Once the Messiah came, then God had no motive so save Israel, did he?


    9, 10. (a) What did Jehovah allow the Babylonians

    to do? (b) In order for prophecy to be fulfilled,

    what would have to happen?

    9 The third head of the beast that

    John saw represents the kingdom of

    which Babylon was capital. Jehovah allowed

    the Babylonians to overthrow Jerusalem

    and to take his people into

    captivity. Before permitting this humiliation,

    though, Jehovah warned the

    rebellious Israelites that such a tragedy

    would strike them. (2 Ki. 20:16-

    18) He foretold that the line of human

    kings who were said to sit on “Jehovah’s

    throne” in Jerusalem would be removed.

    (1 Chron. 29:23) However, Jehovah

    also promised that a descendant

    of King David, one who had “the legal

    right,” would come and reclaim that authority.—

    Ezek. 21:25-27.


    Did you know that in Russell’s time, they interpreted Babylon the Great as the Papacy, the Roman Catholic Church?

    No more kings in Israel even when the returned to Israel after captivity. When though did the Israelites return?

    10 Another prophecy indicated that

    the Jews would still be worshipping at

    the temple in Jerusalem when the promised

    Messiah, or Anointed One, arrived.

    (Dan. 9:24-27) An earlier prophecy,

    written before Israel was taken

    captive to Babylon, stated that this person

    would be born in Bethlehem. (Mic.

    5:2) If those prophecies were to be fulfilled,

    the Jews would have to be liberated

    from captivity, return to their

    homeland, and rebuild the temple. But

    it was not Babylon’s policy to release

    captives. How would that challenge be

    overcome? Jehovah revealed the answer

    to his prophets.—Amos 3:7.


    It was not Babylon’s policy to release captives—does that equal “never”?

    But was it Babylon that released the captives or the nation that conquered Babylon? Based on the timeframe of the existence of nations, was it not reasonable that their rule would come to an end?

    11. The Babylonian Empire is pictured in what

    different ways? (See footnote.)

    11 The prophet Daniel was among

    the captives taken to Babylon. (Dan.

    1:1-6) Jehovah used him to reveal

    the succession of kingdoms that would

    follow that world power. Jehovah

    disclosed these secrets, using a number

    of different symbols. For instance,

    he caused Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar

    to have a dream of an immense

    image that was made of various metals.

    (Read Daniel 2:1, 19, 31-38.) Through

    Daniel, Jehovah revealed that the gold

    head of the image symbolized the Babylonian

    Empire.* The world power after

    Babylon is pictured by the breasts and

    arms of silver. What would that power

    be, and how would it treat God’s people?

    *Babylon is pictured both by the head of the image

    in the book of Daniel and by the third head of the

    wild beast described in Revelation. See the chart on

    pages 12-13. See URL at beginning of Comments.


    Except for the bible, is there any proof that Nebuchadnezzar had this dream, that he was not in control of the kingship for seven years?

    This image does not include Egypt and Assyria. Did the Jews understand that the next metal pictured the nation that came after was Medo-Persia although they were living then? Did Daniel share this info with others and would this be a retro understanding?


    12, 13. (a) What did Jehovah reveal about the

    defeat of Babylon? (b) Why is Medo-Persia fittingly

    depicted as the fourth head of the wild


    12 More than a century before Daniel’s

    time, Jehovah revealed through the

    prophet Isaiah details about the world

    power that would conquer Babylon. Jehovah

    disclosed not only the manner

    in which the city of Babylon would be

    defeated but also the name of the conqueror.

    That leader was Cyrus the Persian.

    (Isa. 44:28–45:2) Daniel received

    two other visions regarding the Medo-

    Persian World Power. In one, the kingdom

    was depicted as being like a bear

    that was raised up on one side. It was

    told to “eat much flesh.” (Dan. 7:5) In

    a separate vision, Daniel saw this dual

    world power symbolized by a two horned

    ram.—Dan. 8:3, 20.


    So what do others feel about the Isaiah prophecy?

    Was it written post event?

    How many know the initial fulfillment of Isaiah 7:14 per the WTS?

    *** it-1 p.62 Ahaz***

    Ahaz’ ‘quivering heart’ should have been strengthened by the prophet Isaiah’s message from God assuring him that Jehovah would not allow the Syro-Israelite combine to destroy Judah and place a man not of the Davidic line upon the throne. But, when invited to request a sign from God, idolatrous Ahaz replied: “I shall not ask, neither shall I put Jehovah to the test.” (Isa 7:2-12) Nevertheless, it was foretold that, as a sign, a maiden would give birth to a son, Immanuel (With Us Is God), and that before the boy grew up the Syro-Israelite combine would have ceased to pose a threat to Judah.—Isa 7:13-17; 8:5-8.

    13 Jehovah used the Medo-Persian

    Empire to fulfill prophecy by overthrowing

    Babylon and restoring the Israelites

    to their homeland. (2 Chron. 36:

    22, 23) However, this same power later

    came close to eradicating God’s people.

    The Bible book of Esther records a plot

    hatched by the prime minister of Persia,

    a man named Haman. He arranged for

    the extermination of all the Jews who

    lived in the vast Persian Empire and set

    a specific date on which the genocide

    was to happen. It was only due to Jehovah’s

    intervention that His people were

    once again protected from the animosity

    of Satan’s seed. (Esther 1:1-3; 3:8, 9;

    8:3, 9-14) Medo-Persia, therefore, is fittingly

    depicted as the fourth head of the

    beast of Revelation.


    Genocide again…

    How many know that the book of Esther never mentions “Jehovah”?

    So was Haman going to kill only the males as Pharaoh intended to?

    Do marrying a non-jew is okay for some—Esther married a Persian. I wonder if her children were considered Jews?


    14, 15. What details does Jehovah reveal

    about the ancient Greek Empire?

    14 The fifth head of the wild beast of

    Revelation represents Greece. As Daniel

    had revealed earlier when he interpreted

    Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, this

    same power is symbolized by the copper

    belly and thighs of the image. Daniel

    also received two visions that provide

    remarkable details both about the

    nature of this empire and about its most

    prominent ruler.


    But did the Jews understand that Greece was the fifth head, the copper belly? They were living in that time of fulfillment…….

    Details that were not understood until the appearance of the WTS in 1879?

    15 In one vision, Daniel saw Greece

    depicted as a leopard with four wings,

    indicating that this empire would conquer

    swiftly. (Dan. 7:6) In another vision,

    Daniel described how a goat with

    a prominent single horn quickly kills

    a two-horned ram, Medo-Persia. Jehovah

    told Daniel that the goat symbolized

    Greece and the large horn depicted one

    of its kings. Daniel further recorded that

    the large horn would be broken and four

    smaller horns would grow in its place.

    Even though this prophecy was written

    hundreds of years before Greece became

    dominant, every detail came true. Alexander

    the Great, the most prominent

    king of ancient Greece, led the charge

    against Medo-Persia. This horn was soon

    broken, though, the great king dying

    at the height of his power and at only

    32 years of age. Then, his kingdom was

    eventually divided among four of his

    generals.—Read Daniel 8:20-22.


    Do others share the WTS interpretation?

    16. What did Antiochus IV do?

    16 After conquering Persia, Greece

    ruled over the land of God’s people. By

    this time, the Jews were resettled in the

    Promised Land and had rebuilt the temple

    in Jerusalem. They were still God’s

    chosen people, and the rebuilt temple

    was still the center for true worship.

    However, in the second century B.C.E.,

    Greece , the fifth head of the wild beast,

    attacked God’s people. Antiochus IV,

    one of the heirs to Alexander’s divided

    empire, placed a pagan altar on the

    grounds of the temple in Jerusalem and

    made practicing the Jewish religion a

    crime punishable by death. What an act

    of hatred by part of Satan’s seed! Soon,

    though, Greece was supplanted as the

    world power. What would be the sixth

    head of the wild beast?


    Once again an attempt to destroy the JWs? Did it succeed, why not? Not a word from the WTS.



    17. The sixth head played what key role in fulfilling

    Genesis 3:15?

    17 Rome was the dominant power

    when John received the vision of the

    wild beast. (Rev. 17:10) This sixth head

    played a key role in the fulfillment of

    the prophecy recorded at Genesis 3:15.

    Satan used Roman officials to deliver a

    blow that temporarily crippled the seed,

    bruising it “in the heel.” How so? They

    tried Jesus on the false charge of sedition

    and had him executed. (Matt. 27:26) But

    that wound soon healed because Jehovah

    resurrected Jesus.


    So where in the bible has Genesis 3:15 serpent been identified as Satan?

    All statements again without proof outside the bible.

    18. (a) What new nation did Jehovah choose,

    and why? (b) How did the serpent’s seed continue

    to express animosity toward the seed of

    the woman?

    18 The religious leaders of Israel conspired

    with Rome against Jesus, and the

    majority of the nation also rejected him.

    Thus, Jehovah abandoned natural Israel

    as his people. (Matt. 23:38; Acts 2:22, 23)

    He now chose a new nation, “the Israel

    of God.” (Gal. 3:26-29; 6:16) That nation

    was the congregation of anointed Christians made

    up of both Jews and Gentiles.

    (Eph. 2:11-18) After Jesus’ death and resurrection,

    the seed of the serpent continued

    to express animosity toward the

    seed of the woman. On more than one

    occasion, Rome attempted to wipe out

    the Christian congregation, the secondary

    part of the seed.*

    *Although Rome destroyed Jerusalem in 70 C.E.,

    that act of aggression was not part of the fulfillment

    of Genesis 3:15. By that time, fleshly Israel was no

    longer God’s chosen nation.


    How many jws realize that the “Israel of God” concept occurs that once? Is it supported by other scriptures. Are all Christians spiritual Israelites or only anointed ones? Then if only anointed Christians are spiritual Israelites, then the application of Isaiah 43:10-12 applied initially to natural Israelites and today only to spiritual Israelites, not the other sheep. Thus only 11,000 or so members of the WTS are truly Jehovah’s Witnesses. The other sheep then are only “companions.”

    *** w11 1/15 p.4 par.8***

    Still, as a people, “the chosen ones” and their loyal companions will physically survive the end of apostate Christendom by taking refuge in Jehovah and his mountainlike organization.

    *** w10 1/15 p.31 par.12***

    By meditating on God’s dealings with Israel, members of “the Israel of God” and their “other sheep” companions develop greater appreciation for Jehovah and his way of governing. (John 10:16)

    19. (a) How does Daniel describe the sixth

    world power? (b) What will another article consider?

    19 In the dream that Daniel interpreted

    for Nebuchadnezzar, Rome is depicted

    by the legs of iron. (Dan. 2:33) Daniel

    also saw a vision that well describes

    not only the Roman Empire but also the

    next world power that would grow out

    of Rome. (Read Daniel 7:7, 8.) For centuries,

    Rome appeared to her enemies to

    be “fearsome and terrible and unusually

    strong.” However, the prophecy foretold

    that “ten horns” would grow from

    this empire and one in particular would

    gain prominence. What are these ten

    horns, and what is the identity of the

    small horn? In what way does the small

    horn correspond to the description of

    the giant image seen by Nebuchadnezzar?

    The article on page 14 will consider

    the answers.


    Any proof here or merely assertions? Have others come up with other interpretations?

    Historicist interpretation

    The following view has traditionally been more prevalent among Christian scholars, who identify the four kingdoms with unified Medo-Persia:

    1. Head of gold - Babylon

    2. Breast and arms of silver- Medo-Persia

    3. Belly and thighs of brass- Hellenistic Greece

    4. Legs of iron - Rome

    5. Feet partly of iron and partly of molded clay - The divided Roman Empire

    Supporters of this view since classical antiquity through the middle ages are: Flavius Josephus , Hippolytus , Augustine , Thomas Aquinas , and Martin Luther . Jewish expositors have also held this view, such as: Japet Ibn Ali , Saadia , Rashi , Abraham Ibn Ezra . [43] Modern scholars who hold this view are: E. J. Young , Seventh-day AdventistGerhard Pfandl , [44][45] and John F. Walvoord . [40] Evangelicals , such as Henrietta C. Mears , and Billy Graham also share this view. [46]



    More assertions without proof, historical or otherwise, or showing that the WTS was not the only one who came up with these conclusions. CTR’s comments.

    But foreseeing that Israel would fail in the day of her visitation, God pictured the extension of Gentile supremacy in the feet of the image, which from iron gradually merged into a combination of iron and clay, dividing into ten toes. The commingling of the iron and clay represented that blending of Church and State known as the Holy Roman Empire. This commingling of civil and religious authority amongst the nations in the exercise of Gentile rule still continues; and to-day we have the division of the nations known as Christendom, Protestant and Catholic, as represented by the toes of the image. The image has stood nearly as long as was Divinely intended—seven symbolic times or years—2520 literal years, expiring in October, 1914. What will happen then? Let the same prophecy continue to tell its story to a consummation. It tells that the glorious image of autocracy and worldly empire, which God has permitted to be in the hands of the Gentiles, will fall a mass of ruins at the end of the Gentile times—in 1915 A.D. It tells that the God of Heaven, who gave over the dominion of earth for "Seven Times" to the Gentile governments of this image, purposes that at the close of those "Seven Times" he will wipe them out of existence. During the period of their domination, under Divine guidance, a Stone has been cut out of the mountain, without human hands, without human authority or power. That stone is the Church of which Jesus is the Head and the Apostle and all the saints of this age of every denomination are members. The cutting of it out will soon be completed. That Stone represents Messiah on the larger plane, Jesus the Head and the Church His body; for we are all members in particular of the Body of Christ, which is the Church. Not until the Church shall have been completed, not until the last member shall have been changed from earthly to heavenly conditions; not until the glorified Christ shall have taken unto himself His great power to reign; and not until the end of Gentile times, will this heavenly power be hurled against the image. It will not strike the image in its head or breast or loins or legs; for these have passed long ago. It will smite the image

    OV83 on its feet—its present development
    —"Christendom" so-called. That impact is prominently noted throughout the Scriptures as "a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation." The Scriptures give vivid pictures of the Gentile Governments in the world, then "the gold, the silver, the brass, the iron and the clay, became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors, and the wind carried them away and no place was found for them.—# Da 2:35. Such is the graphic description given us of the end of Gentile Governments, in which to-day many of us take such pride, and which have their good intentions and good qualities. But these also, be it remembered, were recognized and authorized by God to occupy the seat of Government and to hold in check human affairs—"until he comes whose right the Kingdom is," and to whom it will be given—The Christ—the Head and the Elect Church his members; the Kingdom for which we pray, "Thy Kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is done in heaven"—the Millennial Kingdom, which is to bless all the families of the earth through the channel or medium of Israel—God’s chosen people.

    Overland Monthly / OV079 - God's Chosen People (IV. Chastened "Seven Times")

    OV79 IV—Chastened "Seven Times." A Period of 2520 YearsBY C. T. RUSSELL Pastor Brooklyn Tabernacle

  • Ding
    It is not the truths themselves that change. Truth remains truth. Jehovah’s will and purpose, as outlined in the Bible, remain fixed. (Isa. 46:10) But their understanding of these truths gets progressively clearer “at the proper time,” Jehovah’s due time. (Matt. 24:45; compare Daniel 12:4, 9.) At times, because of human error or misguided zeal, their viewpoint may need to be adjusted.

    Fine. Then why do JWs have to follow their fallible leaders without question? Why are JWs who see the truth before the GB does and point out their errors disfellowshipped as apostates?

    As far as the WTS being "spiritual Israel," how does that square with Romans 9-11, where Paul says that God has not rejected the Jews or the nation of Israel and that in the end times "all Israel will be saved" (11:26)?

  • Balaamsass

    Homer Simpson:

    "Marge, Suppose we've chosen the wrong God. Every time we go to church we're just making Him madder and madder."

    An active JW told me today that during the Watchtower, he was offended that the Governing Body was putting the EARTHLY "Slave" on a level with Jesus in the Gen 3:15 prophecy, and that it sounded Blasphemous and APOSTATE.


  • puffthedragon

    Thanks as always, got an unexpected phone call tonight about meeting and had some fun with it.

  • sseveninches

    I did not know that there were other views on the statue. My fault for not researching it. It makes perfect sense that the feet represent the divided Roman kingdoms. I just hate how the WT twists everything to fit their doctrines.

    I also did not know that there are two letters and one book in the Bible that do not mention Jehovah at all. Mind-boggling.

    What you say at the beginning is true - no one can explain it but they all swear by it. That explains the very few hands that went up for every question during this study, which I totally expected. The next study should be just as interesting.

  • kurtbethel

    Spiritual Feeding Time!

    Watchtower spiritual food for Jehovah's Witnesseswatchtower governing body member

  • WTWizard

    Secrets? So the LIE-ble already had 6 of the 7 heads? That wouldn't mean anything has been revealed that people didn't already know at the time of its writing. And, given the First Dark Ages, whatever emerged could be that 7th head. At which point, the UN could arise to enslave humankind.

    To me, that is not new light. When most of it already happened, that is not revealing anything. And it is a scam, detailing something that already happened before it was written. And what was ahead was interpreted according to whatever happened. Any power could have been the 7th head--Spain and England, Spain and Italy, Spain and France, Germany and England, England and Australia, Australia and New Zealand--whoever emerged and started colonizing other parts of the world was to be this head.

    As for the UN, could it simply be that it was supposed to be the power that was going to attempt to enslave us all? The LIE-ble could as easily have been the plan for the small group at the top to form this world government that would enslave us all, and bring Agenda 21 or Agenda 21+ upon the whole world. What other secret documents do they have? And what documents do they have that they have programmed everyone to get pxxxed at the mere mention of? And what's in such documents that would reveal the plan to enslave us? Revealers of secrets?

  • jgnat

    I had the dubious pleasure of both marking this study for hubby and attending the review this past Sunday. I am sorry to say I was not able to stay awake for the whole thing. When hubby nudged me, I read Plato on my e-book.

    This interpretation is well past it's due date. As you point out Blondie, literal Isreal has been restored as a nation. That wasn't exactly predicted by the WTS. Also the "world powers" as described - the US and Britain - I would argue are being supplanted. It is now China and the US. Just take a look at the Olympic medal counts. Where does China sit in the WTS prophetic vision?

    The Catholic church does not have a strangle-hold on the morality and movement of nations it once had. Babylon the Great? I suggest Las Vegas is a modern candidate.

    If one pays attention to this stuff.

    As you can imagine, "study" of this material was predictably trite. I felt sorry for the mother sitting alone with her two daughters. The two girls were called upon for their adorable comment, while the mother's firm hand was bluntly ignored.

  • BluesBrother

    Just like another thread, about why we believed that they were a F & D Slave, this article typifies the J W sheeplike attitude to beliefs. Nobody could explain why it is so, they just believe (as we once did) because the G B say so. ....After all, one would say " they know what they are talking about, don't they? If they say that a certain verse describes the Anglo American Empire then that is what it must be. Would you like to work out your own explanation? "

    Blondie's review taught me something though. I had always been told that other churches avoided these scriptures because they had no idea what they meant. The links in Blondie's piece showed me that, in fact, the general sequence is the same as many other's explanation, including Adventists! ( I wonder why that should be!) . It goes to show that there is "nothing new under the sun"

    I had a bone to pick with the writers . The article was called "Jehovah Is a Revealer of Secrets".. In fact this is not Jehovah's revelation, just the sum of human interpretation coupled with the ramblings of the Governing Body, passed off as Jehovah's revelation....

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    At Daniel 2:47 King Nebuchadnezzar refers to Jehovah God as a revealer of secrets. That is because Daniel’s God disclosed to Daniel without delay every detail of the dream and details of the visions that the King had. Daniel was able to explain to the King almost instantly what he needed to know about his dream and visions.

    After 100+ years of attempts-WT is still making adjustments, updates and the like in trying to interpret what the feet and the toes of the immense image represent. On page 10 ‘QUESTIONS FROM READERS’ (June 15, 2012 Study Edition) WT is having to make another amendment to what it ‘thinks’ the feet and toes of the immense metal image represent.

    Doesn’t look like Jah is a revealer of secrets to the WTBTS!

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