Brothers & Sisters - Don't be fooled!

by The Searcher 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    WTWizard said:

    My recommendation: If they are going to claim to be Christian, STOP KEEPING JEWISH LAWS WITHIN YOUR RELIGION! Otherwise, can you really be putting faith in Jesus and call the religion Christian? No, it wouldn't make it the truth.

    Uh, maybe you missed the scene where Xianity grew as a sect, an offshoot of Judaism itself? Paul (who was Jewish, hence Saul) reinterpreted the Jewish faith by creating "Judaism for Gentiles", where for the first time in history you didn't actually have to be born into the "in-group". Paul took that exotic, trendy ANE religion of Judaism (think of Madonna, an ex-Roman Catholic, who adopted Kabbalism, an ancient mystical Jewish sect: same idea), but made it mainstream, widening the potential target market to anyone.

    Actually, if you want to be literal (as JWs pride themelves on being), Jesus was an observant Jew until his death, and said the Torah would exist for all time; he claimed to be the messiah of Jews. He apparently never intended to replace Judaism, as it seems he believed he WAS the fulfillment of Jewish messianic prophecies in the Torah!

    Sure, Xians may try to use Jesus' words of claiming to fulfill the law as an excuse to throw out all the pesky rules in the Torah (to be replaced with the Supreme Law of Jesus™: love thy YHWH with thine whole heart, and the Golden Rule that followed), but that's intentional obsfucation in order to justify detaching the OT from the NT. In essence, Xians are trying to suppress the fact that Jesus believed every last word and principle found in the OT, thus trying to make him to be kinder, gentler, than his Father.

    So JWs are in a catch-22, as are all other Bible literalists: you cannot claim it's all literal truth, but then expect to be taken seriously when you start picking and choosing which elements are NOT literal truths, without looking like hypocrites.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Finkelstein said:

    This is most likely why they thought blood in both humans and animals was sacred. This acknowledged sacredness of blood continued on right through up to the time of Jesus. Human ignorance is and was the cause of much inspired spiritual imagination.

    Yes, but that only opens the can of worms of asking WHY humans were full of ignorance, when they supposedly had access to an omniscient source? WHY would God NOT know that the nephesh isn't associated with the blood, or that the heart is simply a pump (not the brain), or the kidneys are simply excretory organs that form urine (and not organs used for making decisions)?

    All of these raise serious challenges to YHWH being the so-called "intelligent designer" of anything, much less homo sapiens. Especially when God is QUOTED in Genesis and Job referring to ancient physiological and anatomical misbeliefs of Egyptian and Babylonian origin that have long-since been corrected by scientific inquiry.

    Why would God establish sacrificial rituals using kidneys for guilt offerings, when the actual organ at fault is the brain, not the kidneys (which WAS the thinking of ancient men)?


    Along with eating blood (which was prohibited also as a form of idolatry, since the practice was associated with pagan cultic worship), the other great sins of the land in the Torah were idolatry, murder, and having sex with a menstruating women! These were ALL considers the gravest of sins that tainted the land, and couldn't be atoned for with ritual cleansing, but required special methods cleanse the community. If they were allowed to go unpunished, the entire population risked being "vomited out of the land" for the sins of the few.

    So why was sex with a menstruating women such a grave crime, so offensive to YHWH as to constitute the equivalent of a felony?

    The thinking seems to have been that menstruation was a personal sacrifice that the woman makes to YHWH (the spilling of blood), as a ritual of her reproductive powers. They realized that menopause was associated with a loss of reproductive capability, and hence menstruation was a sign that God had continued to bless her husband with offspring. In fact, that may indicate why YHWH demanded that blood be spilled, in the first place: it was just following the model of menstruating women!

    So the woman is ritually unclean during her period, and unable to enter the temple so as to avoid defiling it (and anything she touches is rendered unclean, requiring atonement with the sacrifice of doves, bathing, etc). In essence, her reproductive tract becomes her personal altar at that time, and hence her husband is not supposed to invade her temple by putting his wing-wang in there! That act renders both of them as unclean sinners.

    (of course, this is where the "sex is for procreation, only" idea stems, as well as the prohibition of onanism)

    HOWEVER, JWs have decided that this act that was so abhorrent to YHWH in ancient Israel, as to be tantamounted to murder and idolatry, is now a "conscience matter" (per the latest WT comments on the issue of sex during menstruation). Eating blood is verboten, but this one is a conscience matter.

    Ala carte religion (where "your Mother" picks what you can eat): ain't it grand?

  • wasblind

    You did great Searcher, The WTS also says on page 71 in the Reasoning book that Idolitry and fornication

    are equated to blood

    I'm glad you reminded them to test the " inspired " teachin' I have yet to meet a JW wit a reasonable come back

    on their blood doctrine from the Reasoning book when compared to their " new light "

    The WTS is clearly sayin' you can fornicate under the " new light "

    jus' don't get carried away, do it in fractions


  • Gayle

    Taking blood is 'partly' okay. Like 'partly' pregnant, in love, broke . .. . .?

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Reasoning book says:

    Taking blood derivatives is not a "matter of conscience", just as fornication and idolatry are not; it is a willful sin.

    Soooo, since sex during menstruation was also a sin, why is it not now? Ohhh, let me guess: perhaps the bashful sisters might feel a tad uncomfortable discussing their periods with a group of men on a Judicial Committee, having to answer questions as to when their period started, when the sex took place, etc? And hopefully the elders would feel slightly uncomfortable asking those types of questions, when in fact that's EXACTLY what the elders in ancient times must've done to avoid defiling the entire Land of Israel!

    Hey, if it's too much for modern-day elders to handle, then they can always resign; but God's policy on the matter is every bit as clear (if not CLEARER) than on the prohibition against eating blood, and if you can't handle the job, then step aside for someone who IS willing to be God's faithful servant....

    Oh, and what's the problem with Sparlock, again? Oh, that's right: Caleb is practicing idolatry/magic.

    Should not little Caleb be put to death, since that IS the punishment for the "willful sin of idolatry" (Exodus 22:20)? Should not the child who gave the toy to Caleb be stoned, too, for seducing Caleb into false worship of an idol (Deut 13:6-10)?


    Punishment of idolatry. Idolatry to an Israelite was a state offence, I Samuel 15:23, a political crime of the greatest character, high treason against the majesty of his king. The first and second commandments are directed against idolatry of every form. Individuals and communities were equally amenable to the rigorous code. The individual offender was devoted to destruction, Exodus 22:20; his nearest relatives were not only bound to denounce him and deliver him up to punishment, Deuteronomy 13:2-10, but their hands were to strike the first blow, when, on the evidence of two witnesses at least, he was stoned. Deuteronomy 17:2-5. To attempt to seduce others to false worship was a crime of equal enormity. Deuteronomy 13:6-10.

    From the same site, this:

    You do not have to worship any item for it to be idolatry. Just having these things in your home give demons legal right to be in your home.

    Seems like Mom and Father should serve as two witnesses, but if you need more, there's the entire neighborhood (who saw him running around the yard playing with the Sparlock idol); Caleb's parents are required to throw the first stone. After all, if you allow the kids to practice idolatry, it'll snowball from there, and rules ARE rules... Should've perhaps gotten the message to Caleb a bit earlier, Mom, just so he didn't have to be the example that all the other kids can now learn from (and there's nothing like a public stoning to reinforce a moral message).

    Thank GOD (sic) secular civil laws prohibit the carrying out of the so-called "Morally-Superior" form of theocratic rule as found in the Bible.

  • Finkelstein

    The WTS. has to instill a paramount of fear and guilt onto their weakly devised doctrines to uphold and maintain their spiritual strength .

    Men or woman who put forth questions to them are deemed spiritually weak and are endanger of being labeled apostate.

    This fairs well even to the GB members.

    Religion is an organized agreed to acceptance of psychological illusions.

  • maccauk11

    To abstain from blood is to not eat it as in food with blood in it. God forgave soldiers for eating food with blood in it because they were hungry.God requires mercy not sacrifice form us. The sacred blood is the shed blood of Jesus

  • maccauk11

    milk is part cows blood so should u stop drinking milk. Lots of food has blood in it lots of medicine also. It is the eating of it that is wrong wake up

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