What do you do when you find yourself flip flopping on doubting?

by marriedtoajw 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • NewYork44M

    Once the basics of JW land are destroyed - 1914 and 607. there is nothing left. The domino effect is amazing. The scary question in all this is that these dates are so easy to destroy, but why did I waste half my life believing a lie???

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    What is your wife’s attitude towards you and why do you think she is unwilling to work? Do you think she wants a divorce? Or is it that she’s overwhelmed and has simply given up?

    Yeah, she sounds like she has tuned out, with this comment from marriedtoaJW:

    She seems inclined to let it all fall apart but doesn't say a word about it. I try to keep things civil in the home for the sake of our other small children but it's getting more and more difficult. She wont look for a job, not that there is much out there anyway, but you would think that if a woman loved her husband and say him doing so much to keep things going, she might want to step it up a little, if even for just awhile, but that's never been her way.

    She's told me in a fit of anger a couple of weeks ago that I don't even know how done she is with me. My daughter heard her and cried herself to sleep that night. Have to fill you guys in later with more details...

    Sounds quite likely that JW wife has decided, and is positioning for grounds for a scriptural divorce, claiming his failure to provide for the family.... So she gets cut loose from the marriage, but doesn't get DFed and hence gets to keep associating with her JW family.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Will she be destitute if you separated? You are coping with a heavy load. When I was 21, I screamed at my mom tht I despised her (and mostly for JW stuff). Once I separated a bit and established myself financially, she grew up one. We became very close. Americans have a very prolonged adolescence. If anyone told me I would even be in touch with her, I would have laughed. People reassured me at the time but they were old and forgot what it was like when they were young.

    My advice, for what is worth, is to set the example of a sophisticated, older man. A man's man. Not a wimpy Witness. I recall how I was torn apart by my father telling us NJ was no good b/c he was from PA and my mom from Jersey. Also, the Dutch were no good but the Russians were superb. He grew up in a coal mining town without indoor plumbing. I wanted a family like the 50s sitcoms. Respecting another's beliefs without agreeing is a great example for life. He may not appreciate it immediately but the stark difference will be clear as he ages.

    If I were your wife, I would be so anxious I could not eat or sleep. Perhaps she has a brother in mind once she disposes of you.

    A support group would be nice. It doesn't have to be a JW one. I can imagine that a male support group would be a blessing. You are under too much stress. If you don't shed load, you will go down, messing up your children, and most of all, yourself.

  • moshe

    You married a JW- it was convenient and easier to do than finding a spouse out in the world. And now 20 some years later, you are reaping what you sowed. You want some cajones, but wouldn't know how to use them. Face it- you have been emasculated by the KH and nothing will change unless you ( and your spouse, if possible) get some outside counseling and then just perhaps you will discover how to either fix this marriage or get out of this bad deal .

    Living from just year to year and avoiding the hard decisions in life is what brings people to ruin- it might take 20-30 years, but it still happens.

    I tell people here all the time who are just starting out on this bad path what is going to happen down the road- do they listen? Nah, never- they keep dodging the showdown with the KH.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Some of the things you have going for you are these: 1) you’re still the breadwinner of the family, and not only do you provide the grub, chances are you also provide the add-ons, like health insurance; and 2) you still most likely carry some weight with your daughter and may have some remaining with your son.

    You’re right in the middle of things at this point. You have your paternal uncle on your side and I strongly recommend that you use him to connect with your son and work out some agreements. If your wife is getting her health insurance through you, it’s probably a good bet that she’s not going to let you slip through her fingers — despite her animosity. But it sounds as though your relationship is spun out of moon beams, at least with your wife.

    Now my next piece of advice is going to be exceedingly controversial, and you’ll need to check the laws before you do anything; however, it’s worth a shot.

    While you’re away, see if you can set up a recording device somewhere in a discreet area where you can tape personal conversations between family members. Yeah, I know this is going to be walking the edge, but the information gleaned may actually benefit you and it could help prevent your being figuratively sucker punched, if you know what I mean. I don’t know what state you’re residing in or the local laws, so check it out with your attorney. You most likely can’t afford a private investigator, so to find out where you stand with your family, you may have to do some surveillance. There’s a reason why nations spy on each other and when your wife just clams up and goes hostile, you need to begin watching your back.

    Just my two cents. Ten minutes at a Radio Shack and you should be in business. You may also want to record telephone conversations depending on the law and your need to know what’s going on. In my view, the tactics regularly employed by elders of the congregation would more than justify it!

    But be careful. I remember a friend of mine used to double date years ago and he and his buddy would stop at a convenience store. As they left the girls in the car, they activated a small cassette recorder and would go inside, pick up some drinks and kill some time. Later, they’d listen to the recordings! I never found out what info they gleaned, but later his fiancée got in on the act. (He called her the “Lard Queen,” even though she was quite attractive. It had something to do with an honorary title out in Idaho.) Anyway, the information they got was quite candid and frank.

    It might work for you, who knows? Opinions??

  • jgnat

    I cannot condone breaking people's expectation of privacy, no matter how much one may want to know what they really think. It also descends the game in to a paranoid cat-and-mouse, which does nothing for trust and intimacy.

    Two words for you; Richard Nixon.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    I don’t know. When it comes to family and someone is subverting the patriarchal chain of command, I don’t see a problem. Information is power and nations routinely spy on each other, even friends. In this case, you have a spouse who may be (or likely is) engaged in undermining her spouse. I’d think it would be in anyone’s best interest to know where the subversion is coming from and who’s involved — especially if the church is involved.

    Richard Nixon didn’t get in trouble because of what he had on the tape, but what was missing from the tape.

  • jgnat

    We have higher standards of privacy here in Canada and in Europe. I still consider it a moral lapse.

    You can't be at WAR with your spouse. Do that, and the marriage is over. I am very open with my JW hubby, and that has borne fruit over and over again. I am open about my involvement here, if not the details. Hubby has never been threatened by the existence of JWN. In fact, on occassion he has received help from the board in locating particular publications.

    I prepare as a chess player, assuming that any action by my opponent is possible, and preparing defences ahead of time to deflate its impact. My opponent is the WTS, not my husband.

    Nixon is the most mistrusted president the US ever produced. His underhandedness overshadowed any good he might have done.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Lyndon JOhnson recorded conversations. JFK recorded many. I don't know whether people were told they were being recorded. Butterfield, who kept WH records during Nixon, never volunteered that a recording system was in place. ONe of the counsel for the Cong. committee just asked an off-hand question, more to do with pacing than any suspicion. Everyone was shockekd when "yes" was said.

    Henry Kissinger actually recorded very private, intimate conversations with his gf, who became his wife. Kissinger paid transcribers to prepare a transcript.

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