Rescuing a God who is blind to Evil (page 3)

King Solomon

Triple post? Sorry, I had a connection issue

King Solomon

Terry said:

"Man's failure to live up to the perfect "moral" standard is not really a test of anything more than manufacturing standards of God.

So, if Adam couldn't do it...why would Adam's sinful, imperfect offspring be expected to do it ?"

Yup. That's the point I was going for in the product liability video: God's quality control processes were insufficient to detect a defect in his prototypes (A&E), but even when He realized there was a fundamental flaw in the design (which God later describes as "a tendency for evil in the hearts of man", ie a flaw in their moral decision-making capabilities, perhaps stemming from a "bad drug", ie a problem with the Magic Morality fruit?), He still proceeded with mass production (and Cain should've been a red flag).

After the defect could no longer be ignored or denied, God decided to conduct a recall campaign (ie the Flood) for the entire production run of the flawed design. When THAT failed to fix the defect (due to allowing a carrier of the defect to survive on the Ark, after he personally inspected their hearts for the defect, but declared them vouchsafed), He gave up any further attempts to fix the defect in HIS design; hence all humanity has suffered, ever since, and the rainbow is essentially his way of reminding of what a failure He is.

Thus God washes His hands in defeat, even tacitly acknowledging He doesn't have any Moral Superiority over mankind by allowing man to use his own flawed morality (as flawed as it may be) to govern his fellow man.

But somehow out of all of that, we're supposed to get the message that it's OUR (the products) fault? Hence why my snarky lawyer points out, "it's a poor craftsman who blames his tools or his creation(s) when they fail to live up to his own standards".

I will admit that I never really stopped to think about the A&E story, the Flood, until within the last year: like 99.999%, I simply accepted the official interpretation as taught by so many, including the JWs. If you really analyze it, the entire scenario has as many holes in it as, dare I say it, the Noah's ark premise?

tootired2care

I will admit that I never really stopped to think about the A&E story, the Flood, until within the last year: like 99.999%, I simply accepted the official interpretation as taught by so many, including the JWs. If you really analyze it, the entire scenario has as many holes in it as, dare I say it, the Noah's ark premise?

There are so many holes and anomolies with these accounts. These tells and ommisions have the smell of man made fairytales all over them.

Why a flaming sword in garden of eden, a symbol that is way out of historical context?
Does anyone really beleieve that rainbows were added after the flood? The principals behind light refraction were certainly always there even before the flood.
A point of logic how did all of the insects over the whole earth survive being underwater for a couple of months?

tootired2care

If man has some kind of "free" will it certainly isn't free from the crosshairs of the Almighty.

I've often pondered this myself, if he sent Jesus who was suppossed to redeem us, than how come evil is still status quo today? Why hasn't the great value of the ransom been applied yet (2011 years and counting)?!?!

The only rational answer I've heard to this question is that God is giving time for all human institutions to utterly fail so he can rush in and be the savior. This is turn will make us all want use our freewill to worship him. But wait he already did that at the red sea (if you believe the bible), the Israelites saw the miracles and still went back to their default behaviors, so why would it be different the next time?

1/3 of the Angels in heaven that are of a stronger constitution than even perfect men could not keep it up, are they defective and evil too? Perhaps it is Gods demands from his freewill creation that is the real evil.

Preview of what "free will" eternity looks like:

. . .And all the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell upon their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying: “Amen! The blessing and the glory and the wisdom and the thanksgiving and the honor and the power and the strength [be] to our God forever and ever. Amen.. . . (RE 7:11, 12)

Think about having to do this every day probably three times a day? How long would you last?

King Solomon

Tt2c,

Yup, ohhh so many flaws:

Why didn't YHWH post a cherubim and flaming sword on the forbidden fruit tree BEFORE they ate, if God really was going to get pissy over someone raiding his stash? Clearly He has the capacity to exercise responsible custodianship in the garden, but failed to do so.

Why place tree in the Middle of the Garden? Why make it appealing to the eye? Why make it appear desirable for food (drug manufacturers know that making powerful and dangerous meds with tasty flavors and shaped like candies is a mistake, as it's tempting naive young infants to eat it if they gain access. In fact, some drugs are intentionally made with taste inhibitors to make them taste so bad, no one would want to eat them as a candy).

I suspect God wanted to beta-test it, or maybe control the dosage? That raises questions of his "perfect" nature (as well of the passages in Genesis where God double-checks his work for errors, seeing "it was good". Hmmmm, perfect beings need QA processes why, again?)

Maybe God wanted to surprise Adam with a new game he invented called, "Mother, May I eat the fruit?". God help us all, if Adam doesn't say "Father, May I"?

(and now we may have scriptural insight into why the GB wants to be called "Mother")

designs

The Ransom is a political promise.

King Solomon

Tt2c said:

"This is turn will make us all want use our freewill to worship him"

Ahh, another ex-JW who thinks God wants man to HAVE free will, let alone To use it! I also accepted the flawed belief that "God didn't want to create robots who HAD to worship and love him.... ". Oh, yeah? That's not what the story implies. :)

Ill post on it later (if someone else doesn't do it first: it's one of GE lies JWs perpetuate in the story, although the Bible makes it clear to the contrary).....

tootired2care

Ahh, another ex-JW who thinks God wants man to HAVE free will

Nope, if you accept the bible as the truth, then there is no point to "free will"; because a true servant of god, would only do what their god wills them do. The whole notion is really ridiculous when you think about it.

Terry

there is no point to "free will"; because a true servant of god, would only do what their god wills them do. The whole notion is really ridiculous when you think about it.

The scriptures try to have it both ways. Often, simultaneously!

Man, we are told, is totally wretched, corrupt and dead in his sin.

At the same moment, however, he is required to exercise FAITH in Jesus' ransom.

An extraordinary feat! Something (faith) out of nothing (total wretchedness) only works if we aren't paying attention!

Rescuing a God who is blind to Evil

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