by jwfacts 65 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
SPELLING:
"The Bible does not given authority to eat dessert and condemns gluttony, yet this does not imply dessert is wrong"
'Given', should be 'give'.
Nice job! I suspect even if this were presented to whoever runs the JW-circus they'd still say it was wrong. But this is great ammo for planting seeds in individual JW's.
Great article, jwfacts. Well presented arguments.
mP:
Weddings should also be banned. THere are lots of murders and killings at weddings in the Bible. We have the infamous story where King David bourhgt 200 foreskins after killing the previous owners as a dowry to Saul to marry his daughter. Perhaps the message in that story is that all xians should bring foreskins or a dowry to the father.
Specifically, wedding presents should be banned. In addition,
1 Kings 9:16 NWT - (Phar′aoh the king of Egypt himself had come up and then captured Ge′zer and burned it with fire, and the Ca′naan·ites dwelling in the city he had killed. So he gave it as a parting gift to his daughter, the wife of Sol′o·mon.)
NIV - (Pharaoh king of Egypt had attacked and captured Gezer. He had set it on fire. He killed its Canaanite inhabitants and then gave it as a wedding gift to his daughter, Solomon's wife.)
I have been wanting to figure out a way to celebrate my kids birthdays without causing catastrophy to my home life. YOU have given me the idea of how to do just that, thanks jwfacts! Your comment about the anniversaries being celebrated hit the mark!
I will celebrate my child's upcoming birthday the day before, by calling it an anniversary of the last day of being 4. My hubby cannot get angry over this, as we have often been invited to the equivalent of the American holiday 'Thansgiving' at an elder's home, complete with turkey and stuffing. This turkey is justified as being 'on sale' at a really cheap price. This gathering has often had other elders and MS's their for this 'non'-celebration. (This family is not the only one that does this, there are many who do this practice, but make sure you know they 'aren't' celebrating Thanksgiving). So, it will be just a matter of semantics when my kids tell my spouse about the celebration.
Am I a chicken by not calling this a birthday celebration? Of course I am, but then I have to live here, with this spouse...and I do want my child to feel special, because to me, my kids are.
Excellent thread..
The reasoning that I once read on here was to say to the dub
" So then, when a baby is born in your family, nobody has a "baby shower" or send gifts and cards?
dub "Oh yes we do - that is different"
What is different? You are saying that it is proper to celebrate year zero, but not years 1. 2. 3 etc?
The other reasoning is better expressed in the OP.
NB, in my wife's cong library they have an old book, something like a daytext book but also giving space to note down the birthdays of all "The Friends". I guess they feel that the Bible Students were wrong about that
The ban on Birthdays by the WTS. is just another example of the overtly unregulated power by this select group of men , biblically based or not.
It seems that because birthdays were once celebrated by so called pagans that it automatically became a non-Christian thing to do, at least in their eyes.
Theoretically just because a pagan did something in their social behavior, doesn't make it necessarily evil or unchristian.
John the Baptist is noted in the bible celebrating his birthday and yet there was no Hebrew law banning such social event.
Problems are sure to arise from people who openly state that they have power and governance over God's earthly arrangement,
human nature as it is.
An excellent article which answered a question I have always wondered about.
I can remember my very early birthday parties, especially my 5th birthday. I wondered if the reason for the birthday parties was that my parents were relatively new in "the truth" and just carried on celebrating them for some years.
However, the article shows that the first mention in the WT was in 1951 which explains all!!
Thank you for that.
George
Blues Brothers:
The reasoning that I once read on here was to say to the dub
" So then, when a baby is born in your family, nobody has a "baby shower" or send gifts and cards?
dub "Oh yes we do - that is different"
What is different? You are saying that it is proper to celebrate year zero, but not years 1. 2. 3 etc?
..................................
We always show up to visit the new baby in the Hall with an actual "Happy Birthday" card. We love to see the expression on their faces when they open it...
"What's the matter, we ARE celebrating a birth here, right? Let's enjoy it, it's his/her only birthday we're allowed to celebrate!!"
We enjoy watching the ever-so-rusty gears in their brains begin to turn as they mull that one over.
Blind faith = Blind ignorance
I have to admit that I'm a little disappointed that pants didn't make your pagan list. Trousers date back to the 6th Century BC and were considered military and "barbarian" attire. Jesus never wore or sanctioned the wearing of pants, although he already would have witnessed them from his heavenly vantage point. All spiritually alert Christians realize that trousers are a dangerous satanic instrument for crotch-rubbing.
The argument the Watchtower Society takes could be applied to a wedding day, plenty of wedding material has the origen in the pagan world. Christians need to be aware of their intent, their heart condition along with their humanity. Have you meet a wicked person who abstain's from preceived pagan festivals while indulging in evil actions? I thought of different items accepted in our culture for a wedding day, why do they continue today?
The "wedding dress", "wedding ring", "wedding cake" have pagan origins we adopted into our culture, but nobody mentions these, except the "throwing of rice" which is highly frowned upon. Christians are not asking pagan gods for blessing on their wedding day, no fertility ritual (maybe learning about sex before hand would help men better understand their new bride and her wishes?) is performed to appease, invoke the diety to help a couple get pregnant. The intent and motive are what matter when worshiping and bringing honor to Jehovah and his Son Jesus Christ. Paul wrote in Collosians 2:16:
"herefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day."
I know the history of birthday cakes, candles, well wishes, gift giving, making a wish, astrological ("Horoscopes were of very early use in Egypt... and Cicero speaks of the Egyptians and Chaldees predicting... a man's destiny at his birth") We can go the route of ancient Jews who avoided this practice as well, the Jews had a bad reputation in Bible times for obeying Jehovah, their heart was heavy on perfunction and light on real issues Jehovah wanted his people to perform. There is too much to reconcile, people need to learn to read history, and decide from their learning, what a Christian is. According to first century historian Flavious Josephus, birthdays:
Nay, indeed, the law does not permit us to make festivals at the birth of our children, and thereby afford occasion of drinking to excess (Josephus. Translated by W. Whiston. Against Apion, Book II, Chapter 26. Extracted from Josephus Complete Works, Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids (MI), 14th printing, 1977, p. 632
