by maninthemiddle 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I have searched but not found an answer yet.
Does anyone remember what scriptures they base reporting another person's "wrongdoing" to the elders?
I put "wrongdoing" in quotes so i could user their term and you could be reported for anything.
I know they have used the scripture about going to the person first, that is rarely followed, I know it is common practice to tell on eachother, I just can't remember if they even pretend to make it scriptual.
Thanks
MM
I found a mention, or course it is in Leviticus. This is from the YPA book. Not a place I had previously thought of looking.
Leviticus 5:1 . “‘Now in case a soul + sins in that he has heard public cursing *+ and he is a witness or he has seen it or has come to know of it, if he does not report + it, then he must answer for his error.
Actually Lev. 5:1 is the scripture used a great deal considering it was applicable to the Jews.
*** w11 1/15 pp. 28-29 pars. 11-12 Empowered to Overcome Any Trial ***
Imagine this situation. Suppose that Alex, a young brother, learned that Steve, his friend in the congregation, was in the habit of viewing pornography. Alex tells Steve that he is deeply concerned about what his friend is doing. However, Steve shrugs off his words. When Alex urges him to talk to the elders about it, Steve responds that if the two really are friends, then Alex will not tell on him. Should Alex be afraid of losing his friend? He might wonder whom the elders would believe if Steve denied everything. Still, the situation is not going to improve if Alex keeps quiet about it. Indeed, it could lead to Steve’s losing his relationship with Jehovah. Alex would do well to recall that “trembling at men is what lays a snare, but he that is trusting in Jehovah will be protected.” (Prov. 29:25) What else could Alex do? He might lovingly approach Steve again and lay bare his fault. That will take courage. It may well be, though, that this time Steve will welcome the opportunity to talk about his problem. Alex should again encourage Steve to speak to the elders and tell him that if he does not do so within a reasonable period of time, then Alex will alert them.—Lev. 5:1.
12 If you ever have to handle such a situation, your friend may not at first appreciate your efforts to help. But he might in time come to realize that you are acting in his best interests. If the erring one receives and accepts help, then he might be lastingly grateful to you for your courage and loyalty. On the other hand, if he becomes hardened against you, is he really the kind of friend that you want? Pleasing our greatest Friend, Jehovah, is always the right thing to do. When we put him first, others who love him will respect us for our loyalty and become true friends. We should never allow place for the Devil in the Christian congregation. If we were to do so, we truly would grieve Jehovah’s holy spirit. We act in harmony with it, however, by working to keep the Christian congregation pure.—Eph. 4:27, 30.
*** w11 8/15 p. 31 par. 15 Pursue Peace ***
If a Christian becomes aware of a serious sin on the part of a fellow believer, he should encourage that one to confess the sin to the elders. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Jas. 5:14-16) If the wrongdoer does not do so, the Christian who has come to know about the sin should report it. Failure to do this in a mistaken effort to maintain peace with the sinner makes one a party to the wrongdoing.—Lev. 5:1; read Proverbs 29:24.
*** w08 11/15 p. 12 par. 2 Help Them Return Without Delay! ***
Similarly, Christian elders have a desire and a duty to help a sheeplike one who has strayed from the flock. If they assign a publisher to study with an inactive person desiring help, what should be done if the conductor learns that the individual has committed a serious sin? Instead of giving counsel about any judicial or confidential matter, the publisher should suggest that he speak to the elders. If he fails to do so, the publisher himself should inform the elders.—Lev. 5:1; Gal. 6:1.
***
w8910/15pp.14-15par.21GuardAgainstHarmfulGossip!***
A wise proverb says: “The one walking about as a slanderer is uncovering confidential talk, but the one faithful in spirit is covering over a matter.” (Proverbs 11:13) Does this mean that if you know that someone is secretly engaging in gross sin, it would be slanderous to say anything about it? No. Of course, you should not gossip about the matter. You should speak to the wrongdoer, urging him to seek the help of the elders. (James 5:13-18) If he does not do this within a reasonable period of time, concern for the cleanness of the congregation should move you to report the matter to the elders.—Leviticus 5:1.
If your mommie is a commie then you gotta turn her in --
They sound like the Warren Commission.
Blondie, thanks for looking those up. As I suspected even though there are many scriptures listed none really apply. For an example I looked up the "presue Peace" article (the WOL is handy) and found that there really is no scriptual basis.
James 14 Is there anyone sick among YOU ? + Let him call the older men *+ of the congregation to [him], and let them pray over him, greasing [him] with oil + in the name of Jehovah. * 15 And the prayer of faith will make the indisposed one well, *+ and Jehovah * will raise him up. + Also, if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him. +
1cor 9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? + Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, + nor idolaters, + nor adulterers, *+ nor men kept for unnatural purposes, + nor men who lie with men, *
Jeams 3:17 17 But the wisdom + from above is first of all chaste, + then peaceable, + reasonable, *+ ready to obey, full of mercy and good fruits, + not making partial distinctions, + not hypocritical. + 1
In context this scripture sounds more like being charged to not swear falsely under oath.
Blondie, Could you explain what this means?
Actually Lev. 5:1 is the scripture used a great deal considering it was applicable to the Jews.
Maybe you were thinking of Matt 18:15-17:
(Matthew 18:15-18) “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector. 18 “Truly I say to YOU men, Whatever things YOU may bind on earth will be things bound in heaven, and whatever things YOU may loose on earth will be things loosed in heaven.
George
Yes, Matt 18:15-17 is the one about going to the person first to try to resolve the issue then go to the elders about the person if they don't listen to your "advice", aka report your fellow brother.
YES!, Thank you Matthew was what I was looking for. Notably it says first go to the person, then it says go to the congreation, not simply to the "older men" or "elders".
Odd isn't it that that scrip isn't enven used at all in the pargagraphs that Blondie posted.
Here's the NIV rendition of Leviticus 5:1 -
If a person sins because he does not speak up when he hears a public charge to testify regarding something he has seen or learned about, he will be held responsible.
Here is various commentary on the verse: (Found at this site.)
Keil & Delitzsch:
The first (Leviticus 5:1), when any one had heard the voice of an oath (an oath spoken aloud) and was a witness, i.e., was in a condition to give evidence, whether he had seen what took place or had learned it, that is to say, had come to the knowledge of it in some other way. In this case, if he did not make it known, he was to bear his offence, i.e., to bear the guilt, which he had contracted by omitting to make it known, with all its consequences. ??? does not mean a curse in general, but an oath, as an imprecation upon one's self ( equals the "oath of cursing" in Numbers 5:21); and the sin referred to did not consist in the fact that a person heard a curse, imprecation, or blasphemy, and gave no evidence of it (for neither the expression "and is a witness," nor the words "hath seen or known of it," are in harmony with this), but in the fact that one who knew of another's crime, whether he had seen it, or had come to the certain knowledge of it in any other way, and was therefore qualified to appear in court as a witness for the conviction of the criminal, neglected to do so, and did not state what he had seen or learned, when he heard the solemn adjuration of the judge at the public investigation of the crime, by which all persons present, who knew anything of the matter, were urged to come forward as witnesses
Barnes:
Swearing - Adjuration. The case appears to be that of one who has been put upon his oath as a witness by a magistrate, and fails to utter all he has seen and heard (compare the marginal references. and Proverbs 29:24; Numbers 5:21).
Clarke's Commentary:
If a soul sin - It is generally supposed that the case referred to here is that of a person who, being demanded by the civil magistrate to answer upon oath, refuses to tell what he knows concerning the subject; such a one shall bear his iniquity - shall be considered as guilty in the sight of God, of the transgression which he has endeavored to conceal, and must expect to be punished by him for hiding the iniquity to which he was privy, or suppressing the truth which, being discovered, would have led to the exculpation of the innocent, and the punishment of the guilty.
From what I can see, the major difference between this and KH practice is that the context of Lev 5:1 is very open, a public matter. In KH practice, the reporting is more a matter of secret reporting. Often the elders will keep the informer anonymous , even to the one accused. Indeed, many would say nothing if they couldn't remain anonymous.
Take Care
Thanks Bobcat. I had read barnes but I'm glad to see the others too.
Leviticus 5 is all about the guillt offering. nothing in the context can apply it in the way the WTS does.
It even reads to me like that verse may have been added on to the orgional writings. it just deosn't seem to fit the rest.
