Child Abuse Prevention Programs and the Great Teacher book

by Justitia Themis 12 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Interestingly, I logged on yesterday and checked my PMs. Nine days ago, Skallywagger, aka, “sf,” sent me the following nasty message: Um, We Are Not Impressed with wt literature apologists. Please stop promoting it.
    Thank you, kindly. For Now.

    My response to him was to f*** off, and this thread is dedicated to him. : )

    REVIEW

    Recently, I posted on a thread discussing child abuse and a chapter from the Great Teacher book. The thread originator, Life Is To [sic] Short (LITS) took issue with both the picture and the advice given.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/227730/1/Ultimately-it-is-the-child-who-should-stop-the-abuse-according-to-the-GB

    I (and a few others) did not think the advice and/or the picture harmful, but there was some variance; some did not think the picture appropriate. The thread quickly devolved into incredibly histrionic charges that Fleaman and I were WTBTS apologists who support its child abuse policies. Lady Lil generously volunteered ‘to educate’ me concerning child abuse; she did not know that I am a child abuse survivor who had researched the issue upon reaching adulthood. I discerned that these overly emotive responses were likely the result of LITS’ and Lady Lil’s past experiences that are still very raw for them, so I withdrew from the thread.

    Nevertheless, during the course of posting to the aforementioned thread, I had ordered from my school’s library a few authoritative, academic articles concerning the efficacy of child abuse prevention programs, but they were not delivered to my email account until after I decided not to post on that thread.

    In response to sf’s PM, I have decided to give a brief synopsis of the information.

    CHILD ABUSE STUDIES

    There are very few studies examining the efficacy of child sexual abuse resistance programs. Studies from the mid-1990s indicate that children who participate in these programs are more likely to use self-protection strategies, including saying “no.” In addition, they disclose abuse more frequently and more quickly, and they perceive themselves as being better able to resist. Most importantly, even when their strategies fail (they say “no,” but it still happens), the children feel empowered. They self-report that their strong actions reduced the amount/type of abuse that occurred. This is in direct conflict with LITS/LL’s complaint that the children would feel responsible, as if they did not do enough to stop their own abuse.

    Nevertheless, there was concern than this empowerment came with a cost. There was conflicting information in the three studies as to whether “aggressive resistance” (physically fighting back during the abuse) increased physical injury. The first study indicated a weak correlation between the two, but the correlation disappeared with further research, so this critical issue needs to be examined.

    An Exploratory Study of Victim Resistance in Child Sexual Abuse: Offender Modus Operandi and Victim Characteristics Sex Abuse March 1, 2010 22: 25-41

    Finkelhor, D., Asdigian, N., & Dziuba-Leatherman, J. (1995a) The effectiveness of victimization prevention instruction: An evaluation of children’s responses to actual threats and assaults. Child Abuse and Neglect, 19, 141-153.

    Finkelhor, D., Asdigian, N., & Dzuiba-Leatherman, J. (1995b). Victimization prevention programs for children: A follow-up. American Journal of Public Health, 85. 1684-1689.

    Recent articles cite to a study I posted in the original thread. It is a study based on offender self-reporting which indicates that say “no” and being asserted is the most effective strategy. Smallbone, S. & Wortley, R. (2000). Child sexual abuse in Queensland: Offender characteristics and modus operandi. Brisbane, Australia: Queensland Crime Commission.

    Sadly, there is little evidence that these programs prevent child abuse, but they do seem to help these children cope with the results via the feeling of empowerment they experience from using their resistance techniques. My personal opinion is that increased reporting may be the biggest benefit because the sooner the perpetrator is reported, the sooner he/she can be incarcerated, which could reduce the total number of victims.

    In sum, there is no evidence that these programs prevent abuse, but they teach effective resistance strategies—such as forcefully saying “no”—that can stop the offender in his/her tracks. In addition, even when the strategies fail to stop the abuse, the child feels like he/she minimized the duration or level of abuse, and these children are much more likely to report. Therefore, there is nothing especially wrong with the information in the Great Teacher book, and the picture is only slightly more dramatic than the video snippet listed below. Lasly, these studies totally debunk LITS' and LL's contention that such information is dangerous because it leaves the child feeling responsible if abuse occurs.

    In addition to those already cited, here are some of the studies I examined for those who are interested:

    Victim Resistance in Child Sexual Abuse: A Look Into the Efficacy of Self-Protection Strategies Based on the Offender's Experience J Interpers Violence June 1, 2011 26: 1868-1883

    Preventing Sexual Abuse and Assault Sex Abuse October 1, 1999 11: 267-278.

    PRESENT-DAY PROGRAMS

    It appears that schools are teaching programs that are similar to those taught to my daughters, though they have expanded them to include other issues such as not playing with fire and saying “no” to other children as well as adult.

    Here is a link to some sample materials: http://www.cfchildren.org/Portals/0/TAT/TAT_DOC/PreK-G3_Lesson_Samples_TAT.pdf

    Here is a link to excerpts (scroll down) from some of their videos: http://www.cfchildren.org/talking-about-touching.aspx

    LITS in particular objected to the anatomically correct terms, such as vagina, used in the book. I believe that the brother giving the talk releasing the revised GT book specifically mentioned that, per current expert recommendation, the book used the correct terminology—perhaps someone has a copy of the manuscript? While researchers recommend that parents use these terms, this program recognizes that many parents have unfounded concerns about doing so. Therefore, they have adjusted their program to accommodate these (wacko) parents and instead use the term, ‘parts covered by bathing suits.’

    http://www.cfchildren.org/Portals/0/TAT/TAT_DOC/Prevention_Research_TAT.pdf

  • life is to short
    life is to short

    JT if you read my posts you will see that I DID NOT as you put it say

    ("LITS in particular objected to the anatomically correct terms, such as vagina, used in the book.")

    I CLEARLY OBJECTED to the PICTURE showing a CHILD the age of five fending off her rape attacker when she is alone in her bedroom!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And trying to insanely convice a child that it just might work!!!!!! The child is all of maybe 50 pounds the man in the picture looks to be in is mid 40's to 50's? If the child is in her own home sitting beside her bed and some man is coming at her to attack her IN HER OWN BEDROOM!!!! who is going to STOP IT!!!!!!!!! What part of the picture do you like??????? If the book was so great then show the child out in a park or a store or some place where she could truly ask for help and GET THE HELP so she will not be RAPED but her own BEDROOM you have got to be joking me if you find that PICTURE at all OK!!!

    I have a truly hard time believing any school as you clearly say would use the words Devil and his demons and Satan and his demons when teaching children not to allow people to touch their penis or vulva yet that is what the book does.

    I also find it very, very, very hard to believe that any school would use what WT wrote here on page 170 of the great teacher book paragraph three"However, sad to say, some grown-ups like to have sex with children. When they do, boys and girls may begin to do bad things that they have learned from these grown-ups. They also begin to use their sex organs in a wrong way."

    OMG did you really teach you two girls as you said in my thread you did this stuff. You said you read your babies this book over and over as it went right along with what the school you were sending you little girls to taught them. Did you really tell them your babies that if if they were molested they "MAY BEGIN TO USE THEIR SEX ORGANS IN A WRONG WAY." "THAT THEY MAY BEGIN TO TO THE BAD THINGS THAT THEY HAVE LEARNED FROM THESE GROWN-UPS." These kids were RAPED what part of that is so hard to get through to you. To tell a child that has been RAPED, RAPED, RAPED as it seems so hard to get through to you, that they may then begin to use their sex organs in a wrong way is OK WITH YOU! OMG It makes my head hurt!

    I showed this book along with my thread to a school teacher friend of mine and showed her what you said was being taught in the schools. This teacher taught grade school in the Seattle WA area for years she said 'if they taught and showed a picture such as this they would have had parents demanding that the teachers be fired.' 'It just would never have happened.'

    She said 'a picture showing a child in a PUBLIC place fending off a rapist is one thing but this picture shows a child in the most precarious setting! Her own bedroom a place that she as a child of maybe five should feel is the safest place in the world' But no! The WT clearly shows it is her OWN BEDROOM where the attack is trying to take place. IF this man is in her BEDROOM who is she going to TELL?????? Where are the child's parents. Why would the WT, Bethel, the GB pick a picture of a child in her bedroom of all places to show her fending off an attack?????It was not done because the writers of this book are stupid, it was done on purpose to put the blame on the child clear and simple. Why write in a book for CHILDREN that once they are raped that they may begin to use their sex organs in a wrong way??? Why?

    OK LETS CALL THEM their penis and vulva it does not matter what words you use and you love the word vulva so we will use it to describe sex organs, penis vulva what ever the words you use it is still wrong to tell a child who has been molested that they may begin to play with themselves.

    You know JT with all of your reports and big study stuff that you cut and past do you know that children who have been molested DO to start to play with themselves. They do that, yes they do. It feels good to the child. It is very confusing to a baby who was raped by as the picture shows by a full grown MAN sex feels good, it truly does. TO THEN BLAME THEN BLAME THE CHILD because they simple touch themselves again to get the feeling back is SICK ON BOOK PART and on YOUR PART because you are defending it.

    I truly do not think you are as healed at you think you are.

    LIKE I have said over and over and over if the picture was showing the child in a public setting trying to fend off a rapist as the picture is clearing showing her fending off a rapist by holding out her little hand to say NO then it would make sense. But is not showing a PUBLIC PLACE it is showing the little girls BEDROOM!!! And you find that OK!

    I just honestly cannot wrap my mind around your thinking pasting and cutting studies report of yours!

    PLEASE DO NOT SAY LITS SAID things like I do not like the word vulva when I did not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please quit throwing straw man to say things I did not say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    LITS

  • life is to short
    life is to short

    I miss spelled here and I want to make this part very clear I should have used word then used your cut and paste expertise JT.

    It is very confusing to a child, a baby really who has been raped as in the case of this picture by a full grown man who no doubt has groomed the child thus he is in her bedroom. The sex feels good, it feels good to be touched like that on their vulva Jehovah put that into us that feeling of liking to be touched their. And since most pedophiles do not just brutally rape the child right from the start and even if they did sometimes to a child it still feels sometimes good. All of these questions go through a childs mind. Why did that man touch them there on their vulva, even if it is a brutal rape? The will just touch themselves on their vulva or penis after it happens. It is totally confusing to a child. Then to have this book say what it does that they may begin to do bad things that they have learned from these grown-ups, to blame the child as this book does for touching themselves and to liken it to Sodom using the scripture at Genesis 19: 4,5. Is sick on the books part and on your part for defending the book.

    The end of the book says "You do not have to be afraid, but you do need to be careful. When your parents warn you about people or places that could be a danger to you, you need to listen to them. If you do, you take away a bad person's chance to hurt you." What bad places? The the picture is showing the child in her bedroom? Why? And in the JW world the first place the parents go is the elders not the police, then the child is interrogated by the elders not the police, then the child molester the pedophile the man who raped the child this person is brought in then to confront the child in front of the elders. After this all happenes is when the police maybe called.

    Why does the book not end with the way it truly happens in the religion? Why? Defend it all you want JT cut and paste to your hearts delight all of your big studies stuff but real life is the truth!!!!!!!!!!!! I LIVED IT

    LITS

  • life is to short
    life is to short

    One more point before you try to throw out another straw man saying YET AGAIN that I hate all the book or as you posted in my thread on post #2184

    (The thread title clearly intimates that the GB "ultimately" (i.e., in the end) places the onus on the victim to stop the abuse. Nothing in that article supports that contention.

    I distinctly remember the book's release because, at the time, I had two young daughters. I reviewed this very chapter with them repeatedly. The information was almost identical to what they were receiving contemporaneously at school. The picture is dramatic, but it merely shows a child in an empowered position.

    LITS's argument is specious. S/he has explained herself since, but that does not change the fact that the information she originally posted did not support her argument.

    The WTBTS makes enough errors. Making arguments against it consisting of tenuous links at best does nothing but make 'apostates' look 'hysterical.')

    Or your post #2185 (I am not just DESPERATE TO BRING DOWN THE JW"S!

    I suspected the above. Unfortunately, desperate people rarely make reasoned decisions or put forth logical arguments, as evidenced by your most recent posts.

    Lady Lee: I appreciate the work that went into your response; I simply disagree with many of your conclusions.

    "How can you protect your body from people who do bad things like this?

    LL wrote: Yes they are placing the responsibility on the child... So on top of the abuser telling them it is their fault this incomplete message places another layer of blame on the child.

    It's an incomplete message because you have culled it from the rest of the paragraph that specifically says 'it's not their fault' if they do get abused. I agree that the opposite message would likely be given the reporting child by the elders/WTBTS, but the article itself is not a problem...in my opinion. However, if this article is a problem, then everything my girls were receiving at school was a problem also. And, I doubt that was the case.)

    If at school your girls were being told Satan and his demons and the Devil and his demons try to get us to have sex as Chapter 10 of the book "It is important that we know what bad things the demons will try to get us to do. So think about it. What bad things did the demons do when they came to earth?- Before the Flood, they had sex relations with women, something that was not right for angels to do. Today the demons like it when people do not obey God's law about sex relations. Let me ask you, Who only should have sex relations?- You are right, only married people.Today some young boys and girls have sex relations, but this is wrong for them. The Bible talks about the male "genital organ," or penis. (Leviticus 15:1-3) The female genital parts are called the vulva. Jehovah created these parts of the body for a special purpose that should be enjoyed only by married people. It makes the demons happy when people do things that are forbidden by Jehovah. For example, the demons like it when a boy and a girl play with each other's penis or vulva. We don't want to make the demons happy, do we?-"

    There is nothing being culled from this part of the book. It is very clear so that was really taught at your daughters school????? What was it a privite school?

    You picked and choose what you wanted from my posts to make me look crazy as in this post of yours here #2188 (I am DESPERATE to have PEDOPHILES stop interacting with kids in this religion!

    Desperation nonetheless >bad decision-making >illogical arguments.)

    I am going to cut and past the book yet again here for all to read because I know you will say that I culled it from the paragraph to desperately try to make my point. Some of the paragraphs are OK in what they say but the parts that are wrong are POISON.

    The GB who wrote this book did a good job because they have convinced ones like you that it is OK. It is like servicing a nice meal with just enough poison in it so kill some, not all and some are not affected at all or at least they think they are not like you.

    Answer me why the picture of the child in the bedroom with the rapist coming at her? Why not a park or a store or some public place? Why her bedroom? Who is the man coming at her?

    The ones who wrote this are not stupid, they know fully well that they are blaming the child. Why the words in paragraph three on page 170? Why? "However, sad to say, some grown-ups like to have sex with children. When they do, boys and girls may begin to do bad things that they have learned from these grown-ups. They also begin to use their sex organs in a wrong way. That is what happened a long time ago in the city of Sodom. The Bible says that people there, "from boy to old man," tried to have sex with men who had come to visit Lot.-Genesis 19:4, 5."

    That is not culling anything it is very clear that the blame is on the child/

    LITS

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    Justitia, you say the sooner this kind of thing is reported the sooner the perp can be put away, I agree

    Question: what is a child or parent of the child to do after followin' the advice in the great teacher book, and the elders

    sweep it under the rug ?????

    The difference between secular organizations and the WTS is the action taken on such matters, that's why the WTS and

    the Catholic church have been sued. Becuase they both failed to stop the perp

    The inaction of these organizations, leave the victim to speculate that somehow they did something wrong. not the perp

    .

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    Just to let the OP know, if someone hasn't already this out, sf is a woman.

  • clarity
    clarity

    Wow.... LITS, most powerful posts ever!!!!!!!!

    Glad I read this ........ you made things much clearer for me as well.

    <

    A warning label should be pasted on the cover of that book ....... written by amateurs!

    clarity

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Justitia, you say the sooner this kind of thing is reported the sooner the perp can be put away, I agree Question: what is a child or parent of the child to do after followin' the advice in the great teacher book, and the elders sweep it under the rug ?????

    What a stupid question. No one has defended sweeping anything under the rug.

    Just to let the OP know, if someone hasn't already this out, sf is a woman.

    I really don't give a d*mn if sf is a man, woman, or something in between. Clearly she's not much of a woman if she resorts to tacky PMs like that. Oh...let me insert my emoticon too LOL!

    Keep on screamin' LITS, LOL!

  • life is to short
    life is to short

    LOL right back

    LITS

  • life is to short
    life is to short

    I just caught this one JT where you said ( LITS in particular objected to the anatomically correct terms, such as vagina.) They do not use the word vagina in the book in any place. So where in my thread did I say I did not like the anatomically correct term or vagina? Much less the word vulva?

    They used the world vulva three times in the book once on page 59 once on page 60 where it tells a child that if they play with their vulva or penis it makes the demons happy. Well I just use your cut and past expertise here this is from page 60 of the book "Today some young boys and girls have sex relations, but this is wrong for them. The Bible talks about the male "genital organ," or penis. (Leviticus 15:1-3) The female genital parts are called the vulva. Jehovah created these parts of the body for a special purpose that should be enjoyed only by married people. It makes the demons happy when people do things that are forbidden by Jehovah. For example, the demons like it when a boy and a girl play with each other's penis or vulva. We don't want to make the demons happy, do we?"

    Then again they use the word vulva on page 171 "Do you know what they (they meaning child molesters) may do to get pleasure for themselves?- Well, they may try to rub your sex organs. Or they will even rub their sex organs against yours. But you should never let anybody play with your penis or vulva. Not even your own brother or sister or your mother or father. These parts of your body are private."

    This is from your post #2184

    JT speaking (I distinctly remember the book's release because, at the time, I had two young daughters. I reviewed this very chapter with them repeatedly. The information was almost identical to what they were receiving contemporaneously at school. The picture is dramatic, but it merely shows a child in an empowered position.

    LITS's argument is specious. S/he has explained herself since, but that does not change the fact that the information she originally posted did not support her argument.

    The WTBTS makes enough errors. Making arguments against it consisting of tenuous links at best does nothing but make 'apostates' look 'hysterical.')

    This is from your post #2185 where you went at Lady Lee JT speaking (It's an incomplete message because you have culled it from the rest of the paragraph that specifically says 'it's not their fault' if they do get abused. I agree that the opposite message would likely be given the reporting child by the elders/WTBTS, but the article itself is not a problem...in my opinion. However, if this article is a problem, then everything my girls were receiving at school was a problem also. And, I doubt that was the case.)

    My posts above very clearly state how I feel about the picture but it still makes me so upset that you say Lady Lee culled it from the rest of the paragraph. Where does it say in this paragraph that it is not the child's FAULT to cut and past from the book on page 170 yet again paragraph three "However, sad to say, some grown-ups like to have sex with children. When they do, boys and girls may begin to do bad things that they have learned from these grown-ups. They also begin to use their sex organs in a wrong way. That is what happened a long time ago in the city of Sodom. The Bible says that people there, "from boy to old man," tried to have sex with men who had come to visit Lot.-Genesis 19:4, 5."

    I find it impossible to believe that any school even a private school would stoop to telling a child that "demons happy when people do things that are forbidden by Jehovah. For example, the demons like it when a boy and a girl play with each other's penis or vulva. We don't want to make the demons happy, do we?" Or that once they have been molested they may begin to do the bad things that happened to them when they were raped and then to tell the children that is what happened in Sodom with most kids knowing that Lots wife was killed. Talk about doing a mind trip on a child.

    First an adult rubs his penis on them, or worse and then the child touches where the man rubbed his penis on their vulva and now they read in the children's book that since they touched themselves there in this wrong way in this private place they have just made the Devil and his demons happy and that they could be killed like what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah.

    Notice also how they left out the word Gomorrah. All kids know the story as Sodom and Gomorrah. Why leave out the word Gomorrah? Again it makes no sense. But that is just a side point the main point is I do not believe you even know the book. You clearly do not know even what words they use and you slamed Lady Lee saying that we said things we did not and that we culled things to make WT look bad nor did I make tenuous links as you say.

    The books does a good enough job on its own we did not have to do a thing.

    The fact that in your opening post you used the word vagina to yet again put words in my mouth that I did not say and that was not even in the book really makes me wonder what are you after? Why all the name calling and throwing out straw man?

    Read the book before you go and slam me as it is clear that you didn't.

    LITS

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