Can we Die After the Thousand Years and Final Test?

by God_Delusion 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Nambo
    Nambo

    Below, is Revelation 20.

    Can those of you who still belive JW doctrine point me to the scripture that describes a "test" please?

    Far as I can see, the ressurection of the dead occurs at the end of the 1000 years, and people are Judged by the lives they lead during their first lifetime.

    The nations still exist and as one they all seem to fail this suppossed "test"and attack the camp of the Saints, or to put it another way, everybody thats outside the camp of the Saints attacks everybody thats inside, so dont those on the inside get a test?, does everyone on the outside fail this test?

    Where as a member of the "Great Crowd" do you expect you will be, in the camp (no test) or ouside, (a part of the nations decieved by Satan and destined to fail)?

    20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

    8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

    9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

  • bigmac
    bigmac

    who wrote this sh1t?

  • designs
    designs

    Remember God has Anti-Matter and he knows how to use it

  • NVR2L8
    NVR2L8

    The only free will one would "enjoy" would be to do exactly as you are told...failure to do so will mean instant extinction! What a great prospect for those who sacrificed their life to attain the "real life".

  • MrFreeze
    MrFreeze

    I cannot believe I ever took this crap seriously.

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    I was told by an elder ( so it must be true ) that those who gained immortality only meant they would live not being dependant on God or his provisions for life, however if they transgressed his will/laws they could still be put to death by the almighty. The world veiw of one who has immortality can never die is false , it just means you are not dependant on jehovah for life.

    smiddy

  • jookbeard
    jookbeard

    what a load of fooking shite, as if you would turn against Jerkoobah after enduring the 1000 years and rejecting the chance of everlasting life on the paradise earth playing with tamed once ferocious animals, how did we believe all this?

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Interesting to see the use of the term "freedom of choice" vs "free will": there's a subtle semantic difference.

    The choice to disobey God CAN be described as "freedom to choose", since it side-steps the problem of God's threat of death penalty for disobeying. We have the freedom of choice to drink strychnine, too, but that doesn't mean you won't die from poisoning.

    However, "free will" implies a choice made freely, without undue coercion, under one's own volition, no arm-twisting. I dunno, but I'd say God's "Do what I say or die" death threat can't exactly be characterized as a "free will" choice, since the penalty is guaranteed and the decision is heavily-biased.

    So call it "Freedom of choice", fine; but calling it "an exercise of one's free will"? Nope. It certainly ain't that. Hence the term 'free will' cannot properly be used to describe the choice to sin: there's no FREE (as in, "free from consequences") in that.

    JW's re-interpret immortality into "everlasting life" or "living forever", which borders on an unconditional claim without clarification: the fine-print is that the offer is only valid IF you continue doing what you're told.

    @@@@

    The interesting bit to me, though, was this statement:

    The other statement about God’s ability to destroy even an immortal creature rested upon the view that he is absolutely almighty without any limitation upon his own power by even himself . So this latter statement presented what seems in accord with this view.

    Hmmm, so God's power is NOT limited by ANYTHING, even Himself?

    So wouldn't God's unlimited and uncontrollable omnipotence render Him legally incapable of entering into ANY binding contract (AKA a covenant, in the Bible), since it limits his omnipotence?

    So does that mean God CAN reverse His prior decisions, change His mind (over-riding the need for omniscience), and arbitrarily re-write the laws at His whim?

    But wait: aren't expression(s) of His Divine Will supposed to be immutable, unchangeable? In Psalm 19:7, David testifies to the trustworthiness of God’s Word: “The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple."

    And since any action that works against His Divine Will is defined as a Sin, wouldn't God be working against His own Divine Will, and thus be sinning, by changing His expressed Divine Will? But God cannot Sin, right?

    <cognitive dissonance>

    That statement is also an honest admission that ALL those covenants He made with man (eg the covenant of the rainbow, Abrahamic covenant, Messianic, etc) were really just for show, to build up man's fragile egos, as they actually aren't binding on God. Guess not: He can break His word, and there's nothing humans can do about it.

    Not that I believe any of it: it's all silly ancient beliefs, hang-overs from hunter-gatherer tribes in the ANE. Nights were long, and they were bored: what ELSE were men supposed to do before the invention of TV, but make up entertaining stories?

  • dazed but not confused
  • dazed but not confused
    dazed but not confused

    My brain still hurts when delving into the "deeper sh... things

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