Bush administration and the press

by Seeker 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    Op-Ed piece in the Times: http://partners.nytimes.com/2002/03/02/opinion/02RICH.html

    An excerpt:

    "The president's sentiments were no doubt sincere, as is his muscular pursuit of the killers. But there is still scant evidence to suggest that he condones the idea of a free press. Not since the Nixon years has an administration done as much to stymie reporters who specialize in the genre of investigative inquiry Mr. Pearl was pursuing when he was ambushed. Now as then, the administration is equally determined to thwart journalists whether they're looking into a war abroad or into possible White House favors for a lavish campaign contributor who has fallen into legal peril (Ken Lay now, Robert Vesco then).

    The most chilling example involves another newspaper reporter in Central Asia, the war correspondent Doug Struck of The Washington Post. On Feb. 10 — two weeks after Americans first saw pictures of Mr. Pearl with a gun pointed at his head — Mr. Struck reached the remote spot of Zhawar, Afghanistan, to track down reports that a U.S. Hellfire missile targeting Al Qaeda operatives had instead killed villagers. By his account, Mr. Struck soon was held at gunpoint by U.S. soldiers. Their commander, after consulting with superiors by radio, told him, "If you go further, you would be shot." Once he wrote of the incident, a Pentagon spokesman tried to discredit his story, saying that Mr. Struck had only been held back for his own safety. But the Post correspondent called the Pentagon's version "an amazing lie," adding that "it shows the extremes the military is going to keep this war secret, to keep reporters from finding out what's going on."

    Mr. Struck has credibility not least because his tale is part of a pattern that began on Sept. 11, when the White House spread the canard that the president had delayed his return to Washington because of a threat against Air Force One."

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Seeker: Thanks for posting this article. The NY Times is known for its liberal bias ... so I tend to want other sources before I accept NY Times reporting.

    "But there is still scant evidence to suggest that he condones the idea of a free press."
    The evidence for this is weak.

    " ... the administration is equally determined to thwart journalists whether they're looking into a war abroad ... "
    This war is hardly a secret. The Administration is more than fair to the press. Recently, the Administration signed an order to send arms and training advisors to the Kurds in Iraq, and announced that the USA will be invading Iraq to take out Saddam Hussein. hardly a secretive Administration that announces such things in advance.

    " ... or into possible White House favors for a lavish campaign contributor who has fallen into legal peril (Ken Lay now, Robert Vesco then)."
    Bush refused to help out or give favors to Enron when they pleaded ... certainly, if he were so influenced and giving favors, he would have acted to save his buds. The NY Times loves inuendo. They fail to mention that Clinton and Rubins hosted Enron officials at the Whitehouse, and traveled all over the globe to influence nations to work with Enron ... and Enron gave Clinton and the Democrats big bucks. So, any so-called extra 'influence' claimed by the times that is so un usual only needs to go back to Clinton to see even more influence peddeling of Enron ... and a cozy relationship. Thier claims that this has not been seen since Nixon is a willful and deliberate lie ... to link Bush with Nixon for liberal causes.

    If Bush is wrong, let him be wrong on his own merits, and not by inuendo and linkage ...

    "By his account, Mr. Struck soon was held at gunpoint by U.S. soldiers. Their commander, after consulting with superiors by radio, told him, "If you go further, you would be shot." ... "Once he wrote of the incident, a Pentagon spokesman tried to discredit his story, saying that Mr. Struck had only been held back for his own safety." ... "But the Post correspondent called the Pentagon's version "an amazing lie," adding that "it shows the extremes the military is going to keep this war secret,..."
    This wat is no secret ... and in war the situation is not normal. These modern journalists are pussies ... they have never understood war ... and this is nothing unusual for soldiers to detain anyone, at anytime, for any reason ... war ... that is what it is about ... and what are the so-called """secrets""" being hidden? First the journalist does not say ... it is inuendo ... and second, if they really wanted to hide anything, they would have killed the journalist, buried his body in an Al Quaeda cave, and claimed that the bad guys did it.

    " ... , to keep reporters from finding out what's going on."
    Yep ... it is not so much tht there is any real 'dirt' to hide, but reporters get people killed if allowed to run loose ... the big example was how the military trusted the US Press in Somalia, and as a result, the bad guys were waiting for the arrival of US military, and killed them ... so the Press does not always need to know, and this problem was seen in WWII ... such that the phrase was coined,"Loose Lips Sinks Ships"

    "Mr. Struck has credibility not least because his tale is part of a pattern that began on Sept. 11, when the White House spread the canard that the president had delayed his return to Washington because of a threat against Air Force One."
    Everyone knows that there was no """direct""" threat against Air Force One ... but it was a perceived """possibility""" ... and with the Pentagon hit, along with 3 other hijackings, it made sense for the President to take evasive manuevers until the situation was better understood ... and it was clear to return to Washington D.C. ... the NY times claim of Struck's credibility here is BS. They are trying to create a conspiracy by inuendo in pure Watchtower-style of lying by telling half-truths, and conveniently leaving out the whole truth.

    The most dangerous lie is that which most closely resembles the truth.

  • rekless
    rekless

    Soooooo? Everyone knows about culvert operations that is what Governments operate on. CIA, CSI, CSD, FBI, etc.,etc., etc.

    If we knew everything the government did we would never sleep. It really is for national security that some of the news be altered. If the

    The USA is no worse than all the other countries, except our government feed us what they want us to know whether good or bad.

    I just needed to ramble. Thanks

    Dan, Operations Officer CIA.

    The WTBTS has spiritual warfare where they keep their citizens ignorant "their own benefit". The Ceasars of the world keep their citizens ignorant to a degree for, "their own benefit." The only difference is that most of Ceasars citizen can speak their own mind on what is being fed where with the WTBTS one must leave the fold to speak one's mind.

    I do realize there are some Ceasars that one can not speak about or question. In my illustration I am referring to the Ceasars that are not opressive to free speech.

  • Seeker
    Seeker
    Hi Seeker: Thanks for posting this article. The NY Times is known for its liberal bias ... so I tend to want other sources before I accept NY Times reporting.

    No, the NY Times is now known for its bias toward conservative corporations. However, this was not "reporting" but an Op Ed piece, and thus opinion, and Frank Rich is well known for his liberal bias, so this could account for your mistake.

    quote:
    "But there is still scant evidence to suggest that he condones the idea of a free press."

    The evidence for this is weak.

    How about when his administration scolded the press into falling in line shortly after 9/11? Free press? Hardly.

    quote:
    " ... or into possible White House favors for a lavish campaign contributor who has fallen into legal peril (Ken Lay now, Robert Vesco then)."

    Bush refused to help out or give favors to Enron when they pleaded ... certainly, if he were so influenced and giving favors, he would have acted to save his buds.

    He couldn't give favors by then because the spotlight was too bright. The favors had already been given, however, when Enron got to help write administration energy policies the year before.

    The NY Times loves inuendo. They fail to mention that Clinton and Rubins hosted Enron officials at the Whitehouse, and traveled all over the globe to influence nations to work with Enron ... and Enron gave Clinton and the Democrats big bucks.
    I guess you missed those articles. I knew about it.

    So, any so-called extra 'influence' claimed by the times that is so un usual only needs to go back to Clinton to see even more influence peddeling of Enron ... and a cozy relationship. Thier claims that this has not been seen since Nixon is a willful and deliberate lie ... to link Bush with Nixon for liberal causes.
    No, the point of the Op Ed piece is the way the president views the press, and Bush resembles Nixon in that respect, so the link is clear and direct. Clinton wasn't at all this way with the press. His corruption lay elsewhere.

    If Bush is wrong, let him be wrong on his own merits, and not by inuendo and linkage ...
    The linkage is direct and based on facts.

    This wat is no secret ... and in war the situation is not normal. These modern journalists are pussies ... they have never understood war ... and this is nothing unusual for soldiers to detain anyone, at anytime, for any reason ... war ... that is what it is about ... and what are the so-called """secrets""" being hidden? First the journalist does not say ... it is inuendo
    He did say, didn't you read this article? The secrets were that American forces may have killed innocents by accident, and he wanted to investigate.

    ... and second, if they really wanted to hide anything, they would have killed the journalist, buried his body in an Al Quaeda cave, and claimed that the bad guys did it.
    Indeed, that would have been even worse than putting a gun to his head and ordering him not to investigate any further. However, even the lesser offense is a gross one.

    quote:
    " ... , to keep reporters from finding out what's going on."

    Yep ... it is not so much tht there is any real 'dirt' to hide, but reporters get people killed if allowed to run loose

    How thoughtful of the Army to "protect" this reporter by putting a gun to his head and threatening him. Orwellian.

    There may well have been dirt to hide, but now we won't know if the Army screwed up because they threatened the free press to keep them from finding out what happened.

    ... the big example was how the military trusted the US Press in Somalia, and as a result, the bad guys were waiting for the arrival of US military, and killed them ... so the Press does not always need to know, and this problem was seen in WWII ... such that the phrase was coined,"Loose Lips Sinks Ships"

    If the Army is killing innocents by accident, the press does need to know as they serve as the eyes and ears of the American public. Or do you just want to hear the lies told by the Joint Chiefs as they stand before their boards and give press conferences? After Desert Storm, years later, journalists interviewing now retired military leaders discovered that the American people were directly lied to on a number of occasions by the Colin Powell show of the day for the press conferences about Desert Storm. Count on being lied to now about the current conflict. Unless you have an independent and free press, how will you know what is really happening?

    By putting a gun to their heads?

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    rekless,

    I agree. I'm just trying to raise some consciousness here. Many ex-JWs have forgotten the lessons they learned when they left the WTS after discovering the corruption within it. Some of them seem to think the government is telling the truth, that when George W. Bush pledged to restore honor to the White House that it was more than just another campaign lie.

    So I like to occasionally remind these folks that, Republican or Democrat, power corrupts politics just as it corrupts religious organizations.

    Propaganda is not just something that happens in other countries. Or the Watchtower.

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    I wonder what they would have discovered and reported if they delved into the history of Clinton's draft dodging and sexual misgivings with all sorts of women? It amazes me that it is only conservatives that merit the drudging up of anything and everything they can muster to attempt to discredit them. Could it be that at last report, the media in this country is in excess of 80% liberal?

    You are correct that it is not only the Watchtower that engages in propaganda. By and large, it is the American media and the vast majority of so called free thinkers in this society are prone to just accept whatever they are told.

    Sorry folks, but there is a reason to hide some things from the media, especially ones that report any and everything with no regard to possible outcomes. What outcome, you ask? How about lives? Prebroadcast your battle plan and guess what? Your enemy is waiting and ready. So, both sides lose more than they should.

    I think it preferable to avoid war if possible, but when you can't, you must fight it with everything you have available.

    In closing, since I have seen much belly aching about the Bush administration here lately, no one is making you subject yourselves to the American government. Had past administrations actually done something about the terrorist netwroks that have abounded worldwide, maybe Bush wouldn't have to be doing it now. Make no mistake about it, folks, one thing we fought in Vietnam was the terrorist acts of the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong. The ones you never heard about but that happened on an almost daily basis. Had we been allowed to actually fight that one out and the North had not seen the mamby pamby doings of the War Protestors here in the US, maybe that would have turned out different. We'll never know now.

    But, getting abck to Bush, please, feel free to join Rosie McDonnell, Barbara Streisand, Alec Bladwin and the rest in leaving if Bush gets elected. But wait, not one of them left, did they? Just more hypocrites trying to control your thinking!

    If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?

  • Seeker
    Seeker
    I wonder what they would have discovered and reported if they delved into the history of Clinton's draft dodging and sexual misgivings with all sorts of women? It amazes me that it is only conservatives that merit the drudging up of anything and everything they can muster to attempt to discredit them.

    What remarkably prejudiced sentences! Where were you in the 90s? Did you miss the years of intense digging by conservatives into the dealings of Clinton? Does Whitewater ring a bell? Lewinsky?

    How can you possibly think this is a liberal-only practice? Remember Richard Nixon's Enemy List, and the dirty tricks they did?

    I cannot believe you said what you did. Politics is dirty on all sides. Investigations occur on all sides. Lies are told on all sides.

    And Bush is being picked on now because he is the one in power at the moment. When the next guy takes over in 2005, I'll start pointing out his lies and propaganda. I'll keep doing this until people wake up to the way they are being taken in by partisan propaganda. Those two sentences above are evidence to me that you have been taken in by conservative propaganda.

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed
    What remarkably prejudiced sentences! Where were you in the 90s? Did you miss the years of intense digging by conservatives into the dealings of Clinton? Does Whitewater ring a bell? Lewinsky?

    Sorry, but cursory mention is not exactly what I call intense digging. Did you forget all the mentions of "trailer park trash" of Paula Jones? Did you forget all the denials and refusals to speak of draft dodging? Where was I, you ask? May I ask where were you?

    And Lewinsky? Why not ask Linda Tripp? The exposer is gone after more severely in the liberal media than the perpetrator! Whitewater? It was the conservatives that exposed that and it was pretty much glossed over. Ken Star, remember him? While looking into Whitewater and being stone walled, he was villified daily in the liberal press. What about filegate? Who dug into that, really? Again, only cursory mention. Vince Foster? Why was Hillary's staff going through his office and denying the police access right after his body was discovered? Who dug into that? No one, that's who.

    Maybe you forget Tip O'Neill when he was the Leader of the House and was trying to find a link to a Bush/Reagan October surprise? When he announced there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever, he is quoted as saying, "that is all the more reason to look even deeper." Yet, with continous scandals surfacing with the Liberal Democrats, only cursory mention was made. All Clinton had to do was say he wasn't going to discuss it and it was dropped. Only the conservatives tried to keep digging and they are the minority. So, they were stone walled and villified for looking.

    Don't bother asking where I was. Instead, look where you were and compare it to Nixon. He did wrong and tried vehemently to cover it all up. But, they kept digging and found the links. With Clinton, it was mentioned mainly in passing and dropped. Any who tried to keep digging were ridiculed and accused of sour grapes.

    What an excellent way to keep the masses under their collective control. Not unlike the Watchtower, but on a much larger scale.

    If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?

  • moman
    moman

    At least Bush acts decisively right or wrong, Bubba would have taken a poll.

  • sunscapes
    sunscapes
    And Bush is being picked on now because he is the one in power at the moment. When the next guy takes over in 2005, I'll start pointing out his lies and propaganda. I'll keep doing this until people wake up to the way they are being taken in by partisan propaganda. Those two sentences above are evidence to me that you have been taken in by conservative propaganda.

    Thank you Seeker. Yes, it is both sides. When I was talking with you before, I was very much pro-Bush. It must have been too much Rush Limbaugh. Guilty as charged. Only in the last month or so have I been privy to information as to how much Bush is misled (as he is the big Texas oilman) especially in environmental/energy policies.

    Case in point: The administration continues not to persue seriously alternative energy sources: they still bull-headedly want to drill in Alaska, but hydrogen energy sources and wind-power get short shrift. Ironically, even Shell wants to get involved in these new infrastructures, but it's like Bush is turning a deaf ear.

    Then, the administration outrageously denies the existence of chem-trails, yet definitive evidence has existed for four years or more that they exist. For example, see

    http://www.columbusalive.com/2002/20020124/012402/01240206.html

    and related Coast-to-Coast AM info on

    http://www.artbell.com/ (Wednesday, February 27, 2002 show.)

    Not only are these chemtrails used as we speak in the Afghan theatre by helping to propagate radar, but I seen some last week in the Detroit area. Be sure to note the pictoral evidence on Art's site as well. These experiements are the greatest health threat we currently face, yet nobody seems to notice them or care about them, for that matter. And the secrecy is sickening.

    Anyway, Seeker, I apologize for what I've said to you in the past, and I'll admit when I'm wrong.

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