A sad premonition based on facts and trends.

by okage 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • okage

    The Society is going to squeak by on 1914. In 2014, many who even adhere to the 1914 Millions Living prophecy will be shaken, many of those even leaving. But the Society isn't actively printing reminders about the 1914 Millions Living prophecy.

    Many of you who were/are Witnesses know better than anyone that unless it's brought to their attention in 2013, they won't even notice the slip-up. Of course, there is the leeway given of up-to 2034 for this to be a bust. So with constant reminders in 2013, we'll see some exits from believers.

    But the convenience of this situation for those waiting patiently for a total collapse of the Organization lies in disregarding the knowledge of 130 years of history of what lengths the Society will go to cover up their mistakes.

    2013 will roll around and though they can excuse their bull loosely for another 20 years, they will start printing their wrapping paper lies. I don't need to be a prophet to know these topics will make their limited rags before December next year (neither do you):

    *Emphasis on not looking toward the past, including the severity of adherence. This was, after all, a decree by Jehovah at least. And at most, an order by the FDS. Maybe this becomes a DF offense, maybe it is enough to uproot a Witness in good standing.
    *Discredit the "friend" of the Witnesses, or the overzealous ones who thought that 1914 was the last generation spoken of. Who cares if it was Rutherford's hand that penned the prophecy? Reading that book these days is tantamount to Apostacy anyway. But they will make an effort to create new memories for the loyal ones so they "remember" it was never an actual doctrine. But it wont be fully discredited so that between 2014 and 2034, they can take credit for predicting anything bad that happens and claim it as the signs of the end-times.
    *Further demonize the Apostate, especially those offering any commentary of standing prophecies issued by the Society. We live in a world where there exist Witnesses who believe you went through the effort of forging a decades-old copy of the Watchtower and altered it to lie about the Organization. We live in a world where Witnesses don't trust documents THEY download off of the WT sites if you show them something they don't agree with (Selma and Steve, anybody?). It's not difficult for the Society to get their R&F to demonize the words of a DF/DA'd one even if they are using the exact same words and tones as the Organization.

    This is something we're ignoring on a major scale: losing a million Witnesses who are too smart to further buy the manure sold as Miracle Wheat is an acceptable loss. If they can change their doctrine unquestionably at the cost of 1/7th their roster, they'll do it because it means they don't have to hold onto the 1914 thing when trying to make another two million studies.

    Things are looking grim for the Society now, but we're in a worldwide economic recession. Everyone is looking grim. Except for the top executives. They stay rich by cutting jobs and selling off whole divisions of the company. General Motors got bailout money then down-sized their employees right before outsourcing a whole division to China. It happens. The America auto-industry is strong despite this.

    The Watchtower Society WILL fall in the lifetime of most of us. And it will be a day to celebrate. But I believe the only way that will happen if they are Al Capone'd. I'm not saying tax evasion, though it's been reported multiple times that they lied to the IRS about things they should have paid taxes on.

    I'm saying they will go down over something hubris has caused them to neglect. Maybe someone comes forward with an accusation about the governing body molesting a child. Maybe the IRS gets involved. We all know for a fact that if they lose exempt status, it's the end for them. But it's going to be something that doesn't pertain to doctrine in any sense.

  • cedars

    I see where you're coming from okage, but there's one word you've neglected to mention in your OP, and that word is "internet". The internet is like a constant tide of truth that's gradually eroding their shoreline of lies. The GB is finding it nigh impossible to defend against it, which is why they are becoming increasingly frantic in their anti-internet rhetoric. Yes, the worldwide financial downturn will come and go, but the internet is here to stay.


  • Refriedtruth

    Yes,brilliant deductions by a seasoned expert,and the WT spies will bookmark this thread for ideas on marketing strategies.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses Watchtower runs on hate,they hate the world,they hate ex-members,they hate other religions,they hate 'this system of things'.

    At this point in my life age 55 born JW 1957 I am still a theist,I believe in the devil and Satan runs the show at the Watchtower.They are too evil to be original.

    They are a fulfillment of Matthew 7:15-16 "about wolves in sheep's clothing false prophets"

    If the WT dumped blood and disfellowshipping they could recruit,grow and make money bee happy like the Methodist church.These cult ruin it for themselves,they are their own worse enemy,same with Scientology going rabid and nutters over psychiatry.They should just leave it be...

  • okage

    @Cedars: I'll concede that the internet is a very valuable tool in opening eyes to the Watchtower Matrix. Without it, I never would have known about Malawi in contrast to Mexico. Never would have known about the pedophilia or gotten my hands on the number of documents I've acquired. It's been effective moreso than anything else.
    To people who've yet to be baptized, to those who've left, or to those who already have personal doubts about the Society through experiences. The information provided on the internet is a breath of fresh air to those with doubts and a realistic warning to those thinking about going in.

    Maybe the sample size is too small, but the net isn't freeing loyalists. These are people who believe Jesus is invisible and acknowledge that God is so powerful, they made a list of things He cannot do. So when the Society tells them to dismiss anything from anyone who isn't the Governing Body, they do it. The net may eventually get to them, but the seed of doubt comes from personal experiences. Like they do something and get marked by the elders. The loyalist hears rumors about himself or his family in the congregation. Something that makes them unhappy with the way they are treated or the way they see people treated, and then the internet becomes gold to their freedom.

    I don't want to portray ANY of the Red Pills as bitter and looking for justification. That would be the single most inaccurate statement a person could make. What I am saying is, people happy in their marriages don't usually cheat. Many of the Blue Pills are very content with what they have and nothing you, me, or the internet say can change that. But we look for those who are noticing something wrong or out of place. A glitch. A cat walking by twice. Anything that doesn't add up. We find them and we give them the internet. We introduce them to things the system would never let them see. We teach them to live outside of the confines of the structure.

    Trinity and Morpheus would have never tried to Red Pill someone who didn't sense there was something wrong. As it's said "anybody we haven't unplugged is potentially an Agent."

    A JW who is happy in ignorance is a willing agent of the Organization. So as I said, it's undeniable the importance of the internet in waking up the Red Pills, but I firmly believe it's a useless tool with the Blue Pills.

    Sorry I needed to use Matrix references (heavily), but using WT terminology (the "pure" language) makes my stomach a little uneasy. I hope I painted a viable picture. Maybe not 100% agreeable, but at least 100% understandable.

  • cedars

    okage - yes I understand that diehard Witnesses avoid the internet like the plague. However, the Society is running out of ideas when it comes to intimidating genuinely inquisitive ones like you and I from researching their faith online. Also, the internet is making it extremely difficult to attract new members in countries with high internet usage, as the following graph indicates:

    internet impact

    Put simply, the internet is a game changer. It may not have blown the Society out of the water, but it is like a rot that is steadily consuming them, and making it impossible for them to operate in the way they once did.

    The Society is a totalitarian regime that relies on information control. The internet has completely bypassed this authority, and made it virtually impossible for them to hide the facts from everyone. IMO this is one of the primary reasons (if not THE reason) why the growth is slowing in wealthier lands, with the Society in financial decline and undergoing downsizing as a result.


  • okage

    @Refriedtruth: Let's be honest, if they dumped Disfellowshipping, do you really think there would ever be the need for faders? Dropping that emotional blackmail of holding families hostage would cause alot of their current fellowship to leave. Faders would come out and disassociate. They'd eventually get newer people because the newer people don't know what we know about the Society, AND they're free to come and go like most religions.

    I'm agnostic, I believe that morally bankrupt people are running the Organization right now. I believe, even if there were a Satan, blaming him would be a cop out. These grown men in Brooklyn need to take accountability for their actions.

    As for marketing, it's something that's already entirely probable. The trick in mis-fortune telling on a grand scale is to know the lows people are willing to go and mark a trend in how often they go that route. Then you can "predict" what they'll do next. The WTS is an Apocalyptic Cult that focuses heavily on lying and blurring accounts of history. It's not too far off base to figure they'll try it again since they're notorious for it.

    mid1974, The end, um, might not come, so try not to get your hopes up. People make mistakes all the time.
    1975-1980 whatever, we said people make mistakes, right? Well, it was Earl Scribner of North Dakota. Yeah, he was the one who made the mistake.
    1980whatever-now, There's no Earl Scribner in North Dakota? Than I guess it's your fault for thinking the end was coming.

    Again, I hope it's at least 100% understandable if it's not 100% agreeable.

  • sd-7

    Good point there, okage. I would never have considered leaving if it weren't for personal experiences. I had it in the back of my head that the organization was probably not quite right, but not until it affected me personally did it really matter. People who have been helped by some individuals in the organization may think it's a wonderful, loving place. Or they may be so scared they see no way out anyway and are scared to even look at alternatives.

    But I don't honestly believe this religion is going anywhere anytime soon. They'll revise and revamp as needed. Like any good business model, they will adapt to survive, and preserve themselves above all else. Lop off head or tail and it will return as though nothing had happened. There will always be enough people who aren't aware of the manipulation or won't check the source or won't think twice. This entity has been around for 130 years. There are almost 8,000,000 Witnesses. Nothing with that size and longevity will simply die off even under extreme pressure. That's just reality.

    But our goal is...what okage said. Free those whose minds are ready.


  • okage

    @Cedars: I know it's effect in the wealthier countries. I believe I saw a similar chart on jwfacts. And again, I'm not disputing it's effectiveness with preventing new membership. I'm not disregarding it's effectiveness on members who just can't stomach the WT propaganda as "truth."

    The chart is an admission though that there are places in the world that aren't as penetrated by the internet. 0%-39.99% saw the greater levels of growth. These are countries with millions of people and the Watchtower is so aware of the fact that these countries are so limited in resources, they refer to these countries as places where "the need is greater."

    Your analogy about the internet being the rot that consumes them so they can't operate the way they did...it's seriously accurate. But that is a subpoint to my claim. They wont operate the way they do now, but they will still be operational.

    Let's look at the Romanian Witnesses for an example. They were hit hard by the truth of the Society, but they didn't stop being Witnesses. They became their own understanding of what a Witness is. This can very likely happen with the mainstream Witnesses.

    I've written that they may up the severity of minor offenses to df worthy so that they can scare the loyalists into believing Apostates are popping up all over. What if they don't need to up the ante on offenses? What if the internet becomes so valid a tool in even getting the loyalists to wake up? They can use the scare tactic of apostacy and eternal destruction to real in the remaining millions and just operate as a smaller, more controlled cult.

    The reason they operated so effectively in the past was the numbers of it all. Even with a governing body, there are just too many to control.

    And so it's stated, you have far more experience than me in the operations of the average Witness. You put alot of effort into your work and I'm a HUGE fan of it. My claim to credentials is naturally being able to predict a person or group's next move. You may be able to do the same, and night even be better at it than I am.
    Also, I've no intention of trying to pass off my claims as madatory truth. Predicting movements only pays off when the movement's made. And the sheer majority of people on here already left a group that demanded they accept something as truth.

    I acknowledge the internet is a powerful tool that will cause many more countless stressful days for the Governing Body. It's helped more people out of that corporate cult than most traditional methods. I am saying it is left out of my original post because it doesn't currently open up the eyes of Blue Pills with ungodly degrees of cognitive dissonance. When the idea is that the Society will squeak by 2014 and 2034 by rewriting history and modifying the needs of Jehovah to reign in those loyalists, I didn't see the need to list a tool that isn't a proven method of unplugging diehards.

  • cedars

    Hello okage, thanks for your kind words and observations.

    I know I may come across as being quite a cocky and confident "know-it-all" in my assertions about the Society, but the truth is: my guess is really as good as anyone's, including yours. We all have unique experiences from our time in the organization that provide us with insights into how things work and the likelihood or their continuing. It may be that I am proved wrong by an almost inconceivable swing of events that considerably extends the Society's longevity. However, short of the internet being switched off, I can't think what that would be.

    You briefly touched on the problem, without acknowledging the significance:

    The chart is an admission though that there are places in the world that aren't as penetrated by the internet. 0%-39.99% saw the greater levels of growth. These are countries with millions of people and the Watchtower is so aware of the fact that these countries are so limited in resources, they refer to these countries as places where "the need is greater."

    The countries with the highest growth and the lowest internet penetration are also the poorest countries. Because these countries are poor, the publishers can't pay for their own printing/building expenses, and rely on donations from wealthier countries. However, not only do the wealthier countries have their own costs to pay for, but the growth in these countries is also weakening. Therefore, a dwindling moneypot is being used to pay for expanding growth in parts of the world where publishers cannot afford to pay for themselves. It's a completely unsustainable financial model, as I've argued before. All the while, the internet grows in popularity even in poorer countries, making it extremely difficult for the Society to recruit new members. I have personal experience of bible studies going cold on me after researching Jehovah's Witnesses online - believe me, it's happening!

    The interesting thing is, this was actually "foretold" in the 1985 book "Apocalypse Delayed" by James Penton. When you read the following, it's astonishing to consider just how much foresight the man had:

    "... as the witnesses expand in the so-called developing world at a much faster rate than in the industrialized nations, the Watchtower may well begin to experience financial problems. Most of the money it uses to finance it's publishing empire comes from the developed world, and if growth in Europe and North America continues to slow, as it has in recent years, the society will have to press harder to obtain the funding necessary to carry on it's activities."

    okage - the thing that attracted me to this thread was the fact that your premonition is based on "facts and trends". I wouldn't dissuade you from your premonition or seek to ridicule it, but it's certainly a different interpretation of the facts and trends that I can observe unfolding as we speak. I'm not saying the Society is in its death-throws - far from it. However, it is terminally ill and in decline. It will always be around in some form, but if the current rate of downsizing continues, it will end up being nothing more than a blip on the radar. A lonely compound in upstate NY.

    I actually believe the Society already is insignificant in many ways. Having researched the worldwide reports extensively against global population data, it's given me a flavor of how minute the organization already is. It's like standing on top of a mountain, and seeing everything in its true perspective. JWs are a tiny cult, and the reason the media hardly ever writes about us is because we simply don't matter. Against a global population of 7 billion, Jehovah's Witnesses are like a fly on the windscreen. It may take a while, but believe me - the information age is well and truly upon us, and the Society simply wasn't designed to prosper in a global environment where everyone has free access to information.


  • elderelite

    Seriously.... These bastards predicted the end of the world in 1914 along with christs return. When it didnt happen they said "it did, it was just invisible". They told US the that story 80 years later and we believed it. PT barnums theory... Theres a sucker born every minute. We are all living proof. The org will survive.

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