MORE HARM than GOOD

Terry

Why does religion often do MORE HARM THAN GOOD?

If we love our neighbor as ourself---we must first love ourselves.

If we do to others what we would want done to us---our sense of self welfare, once again, is the criterion.

The wicked man knows how to give his own son good gifts, we are told, and God is our parent eager to do the same.

Yet, religious institutions (representing God) are weighed down with judgemental practices, intrusive meddling, preoccupation with superficiality and lip service to the "greater good".

Human Repair is not the objective so much as human CONTROL.

This raises what I regard as a very IMPORTANT QUESTION: shouldn't the one who is weak, frail, mortal and vulnerable be the object of IMPROVEMENT by the Living God?

This suggests to me an important principle completely and emphatically ignored by RELIGION in general.

Humans are impermanent and vulnerable while God is eternal and impervious.

The power dynamic between a living God and a frail human being is too vast for real comparison!

In the world of religious beliefs and practices an opposite ethic exits working against changes which might improve humanity in a practical sense!

Religions often resist changes of any kind.

FACT: Religions are not run by nor controlled by GOD! They are the handiwork of humans with control issues and wrong headed opinions.

To attempt a dialogue or debate about fixed practices and rituals becomes immediate cause for authoritarian discipline or even reprisals!

None of us need be reminded that in our own lifetime many of us, our family or friends have met with severe chastisement for holding contrary

views of our own Jehovah's Witness authorities at Society Headquarters. We have been disfellowshipped, called "mentally diseased" and treated as though we are "dead alive" by being shunned.

Shouldn't we be willing to admit when we are wrong so that we can be corrected?

Why wouldn't THAT be just as applicable to RELIGIOUS LEADERS?

The Watchtower Society will not admit it is NOT CONTROLLED BY JEHOVAH! Jehovah does not lie or make errors and the Watchtower consistently DOES!

What the Watchtower calls "The Truth" cannot be Truth because they KEEP CHANGING it!

The blowback and fallout and collatoral damage of harmful opinions, practices and dictates have impacted members for almost 100 years.

It would take both humility and intellectual honesty to accept this criticism based on the facts. Watchtower Governance cannot and will not be humble or honest in this.

Blood policy, shunning, improvised doctrines on education, beards, marriage, sex and use of free time are nothing short of FASCIST.

The fruit these leaders bear identifies their "tree".

Governing Body = More Harm than Good.

Jehovah's Witnesses do NOT serve the Living and True God.

Instead, they are coerced into serving obstinate old men who want to control them in the name of the cartoon: Jehovah!

What actual improvements in the lives of members can these bloviating authoritarian misfits point to as "progress"?

They are certainly less educated, more superstitious and dependant on the dictates of others. Should this be enough?

james_woods

Terry has a point - but, taking the other side -

What would human civilization be like WITHOUT the influence of religion through history?

Maybe equally important things somewhat equal to Michelangelo's David, the Parthenon, the organ works of J.S.Bach, and so on - would exist...

But I kind of prefer the old classics with all their religious connections intact.

sir82

What would human civilization be like WITHOUT the influence of religion through history?

And let me spin that question around:

What would human civilization be like WITHOUT the prominence of monotheistic, proseltyzing (often at the point of a sword or gun!), exclusive, "We are right and all other religions & gods are false" Christianity & Islam?

What if the polytheists had "won" the religious wars of the 3rd & 4th centuries? What if most people today still worshipped Zeus and Apollo and Hermes and a few dozen more?

I submit that "religion" is not so much the source of many of the world's problems - rather, the "my religion is right, yours is wrong, and I'm willing to kill you because of that" mindset is more properly the cause of suffering, death, and oppression.

NewChapter

You prefer the old classics, because that is what we know and what our history is. If we had a different history, we would have different manmade wonders and different preferences. If religion played no role, then we would have a different defintion of classics.

It's one of those cases where we don't know what we don't know. And we can't know, because history is what it is. We can imagine! We can imagine all of that wealth and ingenuity being used to build up secular learning institutions! We can imagine the outcome if scientific thinkers didn't first have to battle the church and superstition in order to advance their genius. But we can never know.

Human nature is what it is. Religion seems to aggravate the worst----but who knows what we would have used to aggravate our worst had religion not so generously filled that void?

NC

Terry

One person or group decides what all the rest will do and how they do it. This is religion.

Just thumb-tacking "GOD" into it makes the unwary comply.

Take the authenticity of "God" out and it is simple: Some know it alls dictating to others winner-take-all.

Here is the test of a a winning football coach: the team wins.

Here is the test of a expert marksman: target bullsye hits.

Here is the test of Religion guided by God: human improvement.

Here is the test of False religion: Somebody tells you what is going to happen and it doesn't.

Where does the Governing Body test its own authenticity of "mouthpiece of God"?

They vote on what is "true" and keep silent when wrong.

james_woods

But here is the thing about religion:

If you are a secularist, then religion is simply human in origin. The god part is imagination. Thus, it is basically WHAT HUMANS DO.

If the world religions that exist today, and those that existed in history, had not existed - then another set would have taken their place.

Because it is what humans do.

Dagney

The origins of worship fascinates me...bronze age persons finding a need to supplicate or give thanks to an invisible power. WHYYYYYY????!!!

Been thinking about this stuff so much since I left. When I left I eventually found no need for religion in my life, after years of only religion in my life. Strange to me. Then I look at my mom, I know she needed religion, maybe like a addict needs whatever.

Terry

If you are a secularist, then religion is simply human in origin. The god part is imagination. Thus, it is basically WHAT HUMANS DO.

If the world religions that exist today, and those that existed in history, had not existed - then another set would have taken their place.

Anything humans do falls under the heading of "what humans do". Right? What defines a thing is how it distinguishes itself from everything else.

What distinguishes Religion from other aberrant behaviors is the

mental illness aspect of non-mentally ill people!

What does this mean?

If over 90 per cent of people identified themselves as sober and yet they drank to excess daily you'd have to adjust the definition of sober.

Religious people consider their inebriation a positive thing which not only does NOT impair their thoughts and actions--but--IMPROVES them in every way!

The Magic Thinking of ordinarily rational people is troubling!

Once you swallow the "god" pill it makes you immune to seeing fantasy AS fantasy unless it fails to correspond to your own.

The wife who is beaten by her brutish husband yet excuses her maltreatment by saying "Oh, he really LOVES me, I shouldn't have done such-and-such" is an example of distortion in one's rational processes.

Millions of sinners excuse their God for threatening them with eternal torment by proclaiming his LOVE for them. After all, "Oh he really LOVES me, I shouldn't have done such-and-such."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ8hefESt7c

james_woods

But Terry, you seem to be arguing that the conventional end-result (religiously) of human culture is inherently wrong.

Fine. I agree with that.

But I am arguing that it is a moot point - because, simply - this is human nature.

The biggest attempt at non-religion in history was the Soviet Union and - to a lesser degree - Red China.

Both have reverted back to traditional religion - because it is human nature.

It is regrettable the many wrongs done by religion, but it is completely unrealistic to imagine that humankind could somehow eradicate it for the better good. And, given the record of communist "non-religion" enforced in the USSR - can we argue that this was really any better?

mindseye

The biggest attempt at non-religion in history was the Soviet Union and - to a lesser degree - Red China.

Yes, and even these societies developed certain rituals, myth-making and pageantry. They even devolved into 'fundamentalism.' Same thing with the French Revolution, God was taken away but certain figures were deified instead. Even certain parts of revered individuals, like Descartes, were sought after as 'relics'.

Let's face it, being 'religious' is part of being human. One can't rip out hundreds of thousands of years worth of mythic consciousness just because we've developed the scientific method. Much of it is harmful, but it can be beneficial as well (serves as a binding social construct, has psychologicial benefits), otherwise it would not have evolved.

I don't think the issue should be whether or not the world would have been better without religion, but how to channel religion and spirituality in the right direction.

MORE HARM than GOOD

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