Harold Camping's Family Radio is said to have spent 100 million dollars on that May21st rapturefest- billboards, handbilling, Radio broadcasts, TV shows, etc- they were out in force for a year and they had more recognition that JWs had. Indirectly, Camping poisoned the well for all religions who preach an "end times" message.
need your opinion on "who else preaches like the JWs?"
by outsmartthesystem 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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glenster
At the end of Religulous, Maher even proposed an atheist Armageddon--the world
would be better wihout people different than him. He's a Jehovah's Witnesses
leader.In fact, so's Louie Farrakhan. He's not a great man of faith or a bigot--he's
a cynical businessman--a JWs leader who branched out to hit a different market-
ing group. Fard just flipped Eurocentrism for Afrocentrism, the JWs leaders
just flipped Tertullian to make him out an Arian. Rutherford propagandized
about Catholics and WWII, Farrakhan propagandizes about Jews and 9 11. The JWs
and NOI leaders aren't actual bigots--they just pander to bigotry as cynical
businessmen to sell tickets for shows and literature. Farrakhan's a JWs leader. -
wha happened?
well I guess I'm going to go out and "preach like the winesses". Because then I'll be right
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outsmartthesystem
Glenster - I am not sure I follow anything you've written thus far. It appears to be off topic jargon unless I am missing something.
And...btw...I've watched Religulous too. Maher most certainly does not "propose" an Athiest armageddon. In fact....he warns that a man-made armageddon may be on the way if we as humans can't get past the devisive hatred that religion tends to cause.
Here are his closing statements:
"The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end. The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith, and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting shit dead wrong. This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a terrible price. If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, for the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. If the world does come to an end here, or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was that we learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die.
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glenster
^ I stand by my interpretation. Maher makes a non-believer 'centric speech
that anyone who belongs to a religion, believes in God, is different than him,
is someone who doesn't think, is a bigot, etc., and will cause us to die (Arma-
geddon).There are believers and non-believers who deserve such criticism, even get on
lists of abominations, and believers and non-believers who don't, even philan-
thropic ones. Liberal believers who understand faith as such, keep up to speed
about the known (evolution, etc.), and don't want harm or bigotry over belief/
non-belief things, don't deserve his mischaracterization. If not wanting harm
is the real motive, I recommend the believers and non-believers agree to not
like the harm caused by other believers and non-believers.Maher's ironically bigoted speech, like the JWs leaders' material about non-
JWs, come with the same pretense of being better informed yet misuses the re-
search material. Any research at all shows believers may be orthodox, conserva-
tive, liberal, or progressive/reform, and the latter end of that range is very
different from the former in regard to the points Maher brings up about harm
caused.I'm sure he must know that but mischaracterizes all believers by the worst of
fundamentalist literalist misinformation or harm, which is useful for pandering
to 'centric non-believers and marketing to them.The 'centric ham-handed broadside swing from behind a wall of alienation
doesn't make for relationships and sharing of ideas and changing people's minds,
it's more like JWs leaders' extreme stance on those to be shunned. It's not a
way to dispel harm but add to it. It's not a sincere outlook but a cynical be-
liever or non-believer businessman's way to pander, like the JWs leaders except
to a different marketing group.Likewise, Farrakhan's affected Afrocentric exclusiveness is at the root of
his phoney claims the same as the JWs leaders claim of being spokespeople for a
literal 144,000 leads them to misuse research material, force points, omit per-
tinent evidence, mischaracterize others, to feign their exclusiveness. Keeping
that focus about them or Farrakhan reliably leads to a wealth of material for an
objective expose.One example: the last time I saw Farrakahn on YouTube, he reeled off a dozen
or so 9 11 truther claims, including how they lead anyone who investigates them
to the temple of Satan, by which he meant the Jews. Anyone could use the Google
search engine and find multiple rebuttals to all those claims, or check out the
research books the JWs leaders quote from, find the views of those they mis-
characterize or evidence they omit, etc., and know better. Like the JWs leaders,
he's not even a sincere bigot but just a cynical businessman who panders to
bigotry."I have a friend that has recently confided in me his doubts about the
society being God's one and only organization....how would you combat that
thinking?" Like that. -
blond-moment
There is a difference in how they are preaching. I have found many people that do it, however it's not like the JWs. They talk about using their different strengths.
For instance, someone really shy, door to door wouldn't be their strength, so why do it? Their strength may be in studying with those who are interested instead of talking to strangers. Etc.
I have talked to many christian apologists and I hear them say that a lot. I don't make videos that's not my calling, I am more suited to answering questions. etc.
The thing is, there is a lot of preaching going on as it turns out. More than I ever thought as a JW. What is even more interesting is those who are preaching the most, are not preaching about a church, or an organization, etc, they aren't trying to get you to "join" anything. It is truly a message of God and Jesus, not men.
I just found that very interesting myself.
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maksym
All I know is that preaching can take on many forms and is not necessarily constrained to a particular style. To prove my point which is also highlighted in the posts above, is that our actions are much louder than words or any kind of indoctrination.
Consider the example in my area. The JW religion has stagnated and is not seeing growth despite their efforts at "working" the door to door campain put out by the methods of the WT Corporation. I have seen one new KH built in the area and another sold off to another Christian church. Therefore they have not gained much in terms of physical exposure and membership. They are stagnant except for mostly internal growth amoung themselves.
On the other hand my church started in my area in 1996 with but a handfull of people. We now have three parishes in the area and people are still coming in. We are growing from virtually nothing from a rural area that hardly anybody knew about us.
At present the number of Orthodox Christians and parishes in the Northern Idaho area is probably equal to the number of witnesses that have been present here since the 1960's.
Preaching therefore is a reflection of love amoung neighbours and community, something the witnesses don't show outside their group. There philosophy of preaching is based on a strict view of methodology, inherent in a concentrated narrowminded view of certain exegisis of scripture.
They base their preaching methods as a means to identification, unique to others causing them to be identifed as the only ones doing "the work", but in reality Jesus preached and affected people in many ways, and not just on words or understanding, or by his travelling around to meet new people, particularly at their homes.
It is interesting to note that their preaching work is based on "knowledge" a concept often linked to Gnosticism, in order to gain approval or understanding about God.
As mentioned above most churches in my area are thriving and are seeing increases beyond what is expected. And this without a single door knock.
It is also interesting to note that as the Bible says that the disciples of Jesus used public preaching as well as house ministry as the means to further the spread of the Gospel, in no way was this particular method in the Bible meant to be the sole means or only means to accomplish this task.
If we were to follow the exact methods and means of the early church then we would also be not driving cars in the neighbourhood but walking or using animals.
The means is not important. The message is what is at stake and Christians know they should take every effort to spread the Gospel with all their effort not just be pigeonholed into a particular style or routine to do so.
Yes, all Christians spread the Gospel, it is just not in the way that is dictated by a Corporation, especially distributing literature only.
If we take the Bible literally as the Witnesses often try to do then we would only be carrying Bibles around and leave the WT Corporation trash at home because they did not have the printing pressing back then.
Think about it.
Peace
Maksym
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lostinthought
Just today I was preached to by one of my co workers, he invited me to his church and wanted to have his wife talk more with me so my questions could be answered, he was much better at "informal witnessing" then I ever was...
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talesin
LDS has a missionary requirement. They come here for 2 years, to spread the word 'where the need is greater'.
I guess we folk here in Atlantic Canada just don't cotton to the LDS ways, so they've never been very successful at building a stronghold in this part of the country.
BC, now is a different matter... Mission, BC, for anyone who wants to google. And they are in a lot of hot water, in a Warren Jeffs kinda way.
word!
tal
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talesin
Bill Maher is a comedian,, hello! He is also a rabid atheist, and attacks not only religion, but everything. It's nothing personal, glenster.
tal