Was it ever written "with" a thief but changed to "as" a thief?

N.drew

Revelation 3:3

So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

Revelation 16:15

("Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.")

2 Peter 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

I have a question about the original manuscripts. Does anyone know if the older versions say "with" a thief?

I understand human nature. I think a copiest may have thought Jesus would NOT be associated with thieves and changed it to be metaphor when it is actually a warning to protect what a person has from the real thief. We know there's a thief.

N.drew

I don't mean they are together. They are NOT companions if it means with. That's why do gooder would have changed it. He was warned not to.

Revelation22:18,19

james_woods

Hi N.drew - how are you today?

I don't see how "with a thief" instead of "as a thief" makes any sense at all in those references.

N.drew

Along side the coming of Christ (He has come) comes a thief to steal and to plunder.

Mathew 12:29, 23:25, Mark 3:27, Luke 11:39

The reason why Christ came is for God's will to be done. God's will is not being done because as Christ came, also the thief came.

"You will know the truth" but where is it?

"If you do not wake up" the thief will take what you have. Rev 3:3

"Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes" from being stolen. Rev 16:15

If God's will for peace is not done the thief can cause a desolation and a ruination 2 Peter 3:10

N.drew

Jesus is the way. The warning was sounded "do not mislead". The thief misled them away from the way.

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed"

It was stolen, was it not? How are the oppressed released?

N.drew

Why would Jesus be called a thief? He wouldn't. Also he is NOT sneaky.

Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. Rev 3:20

How is that "like a thief"?

Rob Crompton

I checked in the Greek NT - the expression is "os kleptes" ( = as a thief, like a thief, in the manner of a thief) There are no variations in any of the extant manuscipts. That is, "with a thief" is unsupported by any known manuscript.

Rob Crompton http://storytellersbible.blogspot.com

Chariklo

I can confirm what Rob Crompton says. He is completely correct.

Vidqun

N.Drew, in each case the comparative particle hous is used with klepteis (thief), meaning “as” or “like.” BW classifies it a subordinating conjunction.

1 . a comparative particle, marking the manner in which someth. proceeds, as, like (BDAG)

N.drew

OK! Thanks! That means if it was changed then "with" has been lost forever.

If for two thousand years there was enough powerful wakefulness with the believing bunch then the thief would not have got a hold on the people.

That is how I understand 1 Peter 5:8 "Be free from illusion, watchful, your adversary the devil roaring goes about seeking whom he may swallow up." Now in case you get "swallowed up" you have "lost", because of being stolen, your will to obey the truth.

To be understanding the scriptures as they have been past down through MEN is to be putting faith in MEN. Isn't it?

Please consider it this way. If it says Jesus is coming as a thief a believing person will be LOOKING FOR a thief. But I think to follow Jesus means to AVOID the thief.

I believe it means a choice. There is Christ. At the same time there is a thief. Which one will you choose?

Was it ever written "with" a thief but changed to "as" a thief?

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