I find the WTS idea of a 'Universal Sovereignty' to be another one of those 'let's tie everyone up in knots with our intelligence and wordiness'. To me it's all about faith and love. Adam and Eve lost theirs. Abraham on the other hand was a beautiful example of both faith and love. There's a simplicity in this. After all God is love. Satan put doubts in man's heart. If mankind wants to reject God, hate him or simply disbelieve that he exists and do their own thing, they live by that choice. He rejoices in those that love him and want to worship him with love in their hearts. I don't believe it has anything to do with any 'legal' stuff, rightness or wrongness. It's choice.
Universal Sovereignty Doctrine, re-examined.
by Knowsnothing 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Phizzy
Why should God rule, have sovreignty ? What has he done to deserve it ?
Our Sovereign here in the U.K, Queen Lizzie 2nd, Gawd Bless 'Er, is there by birth, not a very good argument for the legitimacy of her rule I agree, but better than "God's".
If he is Omnipotent he could solve the problem of evil, by making sure it never happened, if He cannot do that, he is not omnipotent and doesn't deserve to rule, lets have someone with the power to do some good.
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vanyell
In one of the my previous posts, I've mentioned something related to this Universal Sovereignty. I was reading one of the books by Gregory Boyd, "God at War". It mentions that modern Christian theology still subscribes heavily on the Augustinian conception of God's omnipotency, wherein everything good or evil in totally under God's control. If this is true then:
1. There is no such thing as free will.
2. God is ultimately responsible for evil in the world.
3. Then there is no need for a Saviour to come as it will be nothing else but a staged event.
In his book, Gregory wants us to consider another viewpoint, where God is all-powerful but restricted by His own Rules by His own choosing, that He can only work through agents that follow Him.
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Knowsnothing
Vanyel, in your opinion, has God allowed humans to prove their worth as rulers?
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tec
God's sovereignity is not in question. God IS sovereign.
Humans wanted to know good AND bad... so they did, and earned all the consequences that came with knowing bad as well as good, despite the warning God gave them of those consequences. (knowing as in e x periencing)
Humans wanted to have a human king rule over them... they got one, and earned all the natural consequences that God had warned them about as well.
Etc, etc.
But God is not a tyrant, fighting to prove his worth as a sovereign over our own worth as sovereigns. He is a God of service. Just as Christ came to serve us... and Christ is the Truth and Image of God... so does God also serve us. We just have the will and freedom to accept Him and His direction, or not... and we must live with the consequences that come from our choices.
Froma purely biblical perspective, the Tower of Babel shows that God is not just watching to see who can rule better.
Peace,
tammy
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Knowsnothing
Froma purely biblical perspective, the Tower of Babel shows that God is not just watching to see who can rule better.
Exactly. That's the whole point. He intervenes and sabotages human rule. What's up with that?
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tec
What's up with that is that it is not about universal sovereignty.
If it were, then He would have left the Israelites to Pharoah. Instead God intervened on behalf of those who belong to Him.
Peace,
tammy
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vanyell
Vanyel, in your opinion, has God allowed humans to prove their worth as rulers?
Hmmm... Let's see.... Take the Roman Empire for example. Started off as a Republic, became and Empire and ended in civil war and invasions from the barbarians. You say that God has allowed humans to prove their worth as rulers? In this modern age, do you think that humans have proved to be worthy rulers? Consider Rwanda. Frankly speaking, history of humankind has been just a repeat of the same old screwups. What do you think??
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donuthole
The Universal Sovereignty doctrine is a throwback to Rutherford, who as a lawyer envisioned the overeaching theme of the Bible as a universal court case between Jehovah and Satan.
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Knowsnothing
Hmmm... Let's see.... Take the Roman Empire for example. Started off as a Republic, became and Empire and ended in civil war and invasions from the barbarians. You say that God has allowed humans to prove their worth as rulers? In this modern age, do you think that humans have proved to be worthy rulers? Consider Rwanda. Frankly speaking, history of humankind has been just a repeat of the same old screwups. What do you think??
I think humans would've had a fighting chance without certain impediments. The very impediments I argue about.
Genesis 11:5-7 5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
Again, more interference. Jehovah wasn't satisfied with humans doing their thing, trying to answer the question posed in Eden. They seemed to be prospering, but down he swoops and destroys their progress.