Jehovah Won't Hear Your Prayers!

by Smoldering Wick 32 Replies latest jw friends

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  Smoldering Wick

  I decided to make a new thread instead of posting my response on the old one
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?d=22330&site=3&page=2
  sf asked:
  

  As a "disfellowshipping elder", did you EVER once utter to the disfellowshippee that "jehovah will no longer hear your prayers or cries for help. Only Satan can now"?
  If you never said it like this directly or verbatim, HOW did you say this to them? What did/ do elders say re: the prayers that you utter AFTER being "cast out"? And how did you feel AND think about saying such to a child who had been disfellowshipped?-sf

  SF,

  I am neither an ex-elder or disfellowshipped, but this happened to me.

  I had been away from the meetings for about 4 months or so. My label then was "inactive" as it is today. I had stopped attending due to personal reasons and still had some contact with the "friends". One day, I was driving past an elder's new house...I saw that they were home and on the spur of the moment decided to drop in and say "hi". (The elder and his wife had pioneered with me and we were good "friends") When I had arrived at their house, I was full of smiles to see them. I hugged them and told them I missed and loved them. They gave me a tour of their new house...it was nice to see t hem. We chitchatted for about 30 minutes on all the latest gossip at the hall. Then the tone changed...

  Apparently, this elder had been planning a "visit" with me but, I had not been there when he dropped by. In front of his wife, he began the "shepherding call" he obviously had been waiting to make. He mentions that we are commanded by Jesus to attend all the meetings...and that by me not attending, I was directly going against Christ. He went on to read several scriptures about "not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together.." and the one in Hebrews that says "Beware, for fear there should ever develop in you a wicked heart lacking faith by drawing away from the living God." Then he tells me that the reason I have become inactive was that I lacked faith. That by leaving God, He will leave me. I was trying to be non-confrontational...I had not really researched too much. I was pretty much still a JW through and through. I had stopped attending meetings because of some traumatic things that happened in my family. I was diagnosed with Major Depression and was on Prozac at the time, (which was good because it prevented me from becoming emotional when this elder was telling me these things.) I calmly asked...so, you're telling me...that even though I am the same person I was when I attended meetings, that now because I am inactive I lack faith in God? I reassured them that I did indeed still have faith in both God and Jesus. He then said, "I am telling you that because you have chosen to stop attending meetings, you will be destroyed at Armageddon." "...and don't bother praying, because Jehovah won't hear you."

  At this time, I didn't have a lot of information I could use...and I had no intention of doing anything that could be construed as "apostate." I had been secretly chatting in the "Disfellowshipped JWs" room on AOL and one thing I learned there did come to mind. I asked the elder and his wife if I could borrow their Reasoning Book. I had to ask several times, it was obvious they didn't want me to have it. I told them I wanted to share something I had discovered with them...and not to worry, I was just going to read directly out of the book. I turned to page 359 and read the sub-head "Is anything more than faith needed in order to gain salvation?" I then read Ephesians 2:8,9 straight out of the RB. "By grace ["undeserved kindness," NW] you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is a gift of God-not because of works, lest any man should boast." I said "Notice what the Society themselves said regarding this scripture..."The entire provision for salvation is an expression of God's undeserved kindness. There is no way that a descendant of Adam can gain salvation on his own, no matter how noble his works are. Salvation is a gift from God given to those who put faith in the sin-atoning value of the sacrifice of his Son.) I then read Acts 16:30, 31 straight from the RB "'Men, what must I do to be saved?' And they [Paul and Silas] said, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household."

  At this time, this elder's wife...who had remained completely silent, watching both of us from her chair...started shaking, turned red and jumped up out of her chair and said "Smoldering Wick (my name deleted lol) YOU SOUND LIKE A BAPTIST!!" "How DARE you come into MY home and talk to MY husband this way!!! "Get OUT of MY house RIGHT NOW!!!"

  So, I put my shoes back on (had taken them off because of the new carpet) and walked out the door. The elder followed me and we talked for another 45 minutes by my car. He apologized for his wife...said that she really really LOVED me and that "this" (me becoming inactive) had hurt her real bad.

  Needless to say, this visit prompted an official visit from this elder to my home. He brought another elder along with him. (The second elder had gone to pioneer school with me) The visit was pleasant...lasting about 2.5 hours. They talked a little about my problems and how the congregation "missed me." But, most importantly they wanted to know how I now felt about the witnesses. Then came the dreaded "Apostate" question. A few days earlier, I had had a discussion with an exjw online and asked him what he told the elders when they visited. He said, he shrugged his shoulders and said "I don't know." Well, here was my turn. The second elder asked me "Do you think that Jehovah's Witnesses are God's channel on earth today?" (or something to that effect) I said "Well...I have my doubts" lol I said I didn't think that the witnesses were the only ones that were going to be saved. I shared scriptures with them on how Jesus had died for ALL men and that salvation was by faith and not works. (things I had learned from my AOL chat buddies) At the end of this visit, there wasn't much these brothers could say...only that they agreed with the verses I had read from the Bible...they "understood" and still cared about me. Both of the elders hugged me and told me they loved me before they left. I haven't seen them now for 3 years.

  Wick
  (of the totally ignored class)

  well, i'm really sleepy guess i'll just hit the post button w/o proofing this. lol i'll probably be sorry when i read it again in the morning (ok..one small edit...i messed up a code lol...but, that's it)
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  Prisca

  SW,

  Wow, that is great Reasoning from the Scriptures! And to use their own books to show what the Bible really says....

  Thanks for the info. Hopefully I'll remember to use that next time I am told that I am going to fry at Armageddon for not attending the meetings.
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  Rummy1

  Good story Wick...It's a shame that we have to lose friends when we come out. I have a wonderful friend who I encouraged to pioneer and go abroad.He is now pioneering in the Dominican Republic!When he hears about my being inactive(he probably already has)he'll flip.
  Be interesting to see if he tries to contact me for a pep talk.He's a great bloke.Funny how your elder's wife friend called you a baptist just for quoting from the bible!!Unbelievable:(
  I've not had many visits yet just one elder who originally was very weak in the truth when I was strong and he uses the line "you encouraged me when I was down so now it's my turn etc"..but he's still comes across as an old friend(at the moment anyway)
  I'm hoping to just fade away.....pigs might fly:)
  Enjoyed your post anyway Wick....do you really live on Christmas Island...isn't that where the crabs crawl across the island every year?
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  Room 215

  Hi Smoldering, Prisca, et al,

  It isn't that JWs don't know what the Bible says, it's that they are prone to add a ``but'' after the incovenient text is read, an equivocation which begins an epilogue to vitiate or even twist the meaning of the just-read scripture, i.e. ``I know that's what it says...BUT.''

  1 Timothy 2:15 (Christ as Mediator); John 6:35 (Christ as the Bread of LIfe for all Christians) and James 1:27 (looking after widows and orphas as the identifying marek of the pure religion) are other prominent examples of JW ``yes BUT"" bait-and-switch theology/
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  ozziepost

  Well done, Smoldering Wick, and thanks for bringing this to our attention.

  I notice that you rightly add quotation marks to your description of your former associates in the borg as "friends". How appropriate! Many have seen at first hand that any "friendhips" as Witnesses are conditional friendships or, as a friend pointed out to me, they are more accuately described as "associations".

  Cheers,
  Ozzie

  "If our hopes for peace are placed in the hands of imperfect people, they are bound to evaporate."

  
  - Ron Hutchcraft Surviving the Storms of Stress
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  willy_think

  More hidden claims of apostolic succession from the WT. with the power to loose and bind.

  It is the doctrine of the WT that a DF person IS cut off from God.
  

  "jehovah will no longer hear your prayers or cries for help. Only Satan can now"

  Since the lines of communication has been cut by the WT it is only natural that Jah will not here DF'ed prayers until reinstated.

  Here on the net, were the need to conform is minimal and no privilege can be gained by towing the party line, I don't think you will find any elder or ex-elder who would claim this control tactic as a "true doctrine."

  The Great and Powerful Oz:
  

  pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
• 

  Amazing

  HI S. Wick: Very very good! This is the big problem cults have with Jesus, God, and the Bible ... salvation is not earned. Even the Society cannot duck that issue. But their theology is so cluttered with workds programms, that they become blind to their own books like the Reasoning book. Thanks.
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  Smoldering Wick

  Enjoyed your post anyway Wick....do you really live on Christmas Island...isn't that where the crabs crawl across the island every year?-Rummy1

  
  Rummy, no, I live in the states...but, I've already picked out my after Armageddon house on the island. It's crab safe.
  

  "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." Emo Philips
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  jschwehm

  When I was first leaving the JWs, I had become inactive and I am sure many suspected me of apostasy. In any case, my wife had been invited to stand in the wedding of a JW. She was very excited to be in the wedding and so I went to the JW wedding with her. It was my first time being around the JWs in many months.

  While I was getting reaquainted with the friends, an elder came up to me and in front of everyone there started asking me questions about why I had not been to the meetings. He then told me that if I did not get reactivated that I would die soon at Armaggeddon. I was livid. I would have left the wedding right at that moment had it not been for my wife standing in the wedding. After the elder told me that I put my hands up and just walked away without saying anything. The elder knew that he had pissed me off.

  After the wedding at the reception, I told my wife what had happened and she was still a semi-active JW at the time. She was pissed and told my JW mother who went and said some things to this elder. The elder's response was to send a message thru my mother that he was sorry for the way he had spoken to me. He would not even apologize to me face to face.

  Later my wife and I started reading the Bible together without the aid of the Society's publications. This same elder and one of his cohorts called on us as part of a shepherding call. They asked me if I was doing anything to take care of my family spiritually. I told him that every morning my wife and I would read the Bible together. The elders said to me that that was not enough. That the next thing we should do is see what the Faithful and Discreet Slave said about the subject after reading the Bible. This started the questioning about whether we believed that God was using the Faithful and Discreet Slave as God's channel. I had already told my wife that I no longer believed that God was using the organization as his channel. She was nice enough to interrupt the questioning and change the subject and the elders never got back to interrogating me on this issue.

  Jeff S.
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  Smoldering Wick

  As I had mentioned on a previous post regarding my sister who came for a visit. She told me that my leaving classified me as wicked and I would not survive Armageddon. Her reason for talking to me was that she did not want to be 'blood guilty.' She said she wished that she could pray for me, but she knew it wasn't right. All she could do was hope that I would have a change of heart.

  So, not only will Jehovah NOT hear MY prayers...He doesn't hear ANY prayers that are said FOR ME by active Witnesses!! LOL

  Man, I'm doomed...guess I'll be crab food @ Armageddon.. oh well, *sigh*

  Wick