has anyone lied to the two elders (page 3)

ziddina

Do you feel any moral obligation to be truthful with them, in a setting that may lead to problems???

If so, then you may want to consider their "Theocratic Warfare" and how it functions as an excuse for flagrant duplicity.

Once I'd learned about their "Theocratic Warfare" concept, and how it has been used to excuse lying - even in a court of law while under oath - I ceased feeling any twinges of conscience about the need to lie to deceive any of them....

On the other hand, if you feel choked by the duplicity that one MUST practice in order to 'fade', then I can see how it might be difficult to avoid blurting out how one REALLY feels about their doctrines and dogma. [That was usually MY response - I just couldn't keep my mouth shut and pretend to be a "good little Witness", when I was filled with fury at the hypocrisy and abuses I'd experienced and observed...]

I usually compare a successful "fade" to playing "spy"....

I would never make a good "spy". I am way too honest - verbally - at least, I was until I saw the WHOLE picture of the Watchtower Corporation's duplicity.

Saw it by coming on this website - 25 years after I'd left the Jehovah's Witnesses...

Anyway, I hope that you're successful in continuing your 'fade', and that you do not experience too much internal conflict between the desire to tell them how you REALLY feel and what you REALLY think, and the need to pretend to be a docile, obedient - though too "depressed" to be active - Witness...

00DAD

You do NOT have to meet with them. A polite, but firm, "No thanks!" is your right. They will see it otherwise, but that's only because they've been trained to overstep personal boundaries. It is up to us as individuals to remind them where the real boundaries are and then insist that they stay on their side of it.

Your question about lying to elders and it's consequences reminded me of a related thought in this thread:

Judicial Committees prove that God is not backing the WTBTS!!!

Botzwana

I lied. Told them I go to the Spanish cong. now. It so far has worked.

Scully

It isn't "lying", it's Theocratic War Strategy™.

'While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. ...'Insight On The Scriptures, Volume 2, 1988 pages 244-245.

out4good3

I just flat out otld them that while they were in my home we could talk about bible subjects as long as they wished, but, that I would not allow them to chastise or use the subjects being discussed to try an coerce me in any way.

they left soon after with a hardy handshake. I didn't even get a prayer!!!

Girlie

Well, everyone here pretty much summed it up. You are not obligated to meet with them, but if so, your house, your rules. If they can't abide by them, kindly show them the door.

If you do meet with them, just let them know that you are taking a break due to other more pressing issues and leave it at that. Do not let them press you for any information you wish not to discuss and do not let them control the meeting. You control the direction you want it to go in.

As far as your question, I wouldn't say that I have lied to the elders. I just don't divulge much of my concerns to them. Whenever I encounter a few JWs and elders who "innocently" inquire of my whereabouts or my "well-being" I let them know that I have more important issues going on and thank them for their concern and go about my business. I have not had an elder to want to meet with me and don't think they would want to since I have moved a couple of times out of the territory, but still in the area.

has anyone lied to the two elders