Impact on the receiving end of "What the Bible Really Teaches"

by kepler 30 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Cadellin
    Cadellin

    Kepler:

    Your questions are all good and legitimate. You have correctly noted that scriptures are used to support pre-existing doctrine, not the other way around, as supposedly Charles Russell sought to understand them. I was raised a good JW and wondered myself about the clear and obvious discrepancy b/w how JWs view the fulfillment of prophecy re Babylon's destruction and the actual, historical events. I believe that one way around this problem is that they claim that Bablylon "fell" from a spiritual standpoint when the Israelites were freed and able to return to Jerusalem. That is, it was a spiritual/metaphoric "destruction" in that Babylon no longer had dominion over God's people. Of course, that completely misses the point that the prophecies unquestionably pertain to a sudden and very violent overthrow--old men, young, virgins and babies all being run through with the sword, etc.--and that such violence would be at the hands of the Medes.

    By all means, assemble your questions and send them in to the WT. And please keep us informed as to the response. My prediction is that it will be several months b/f you hear back and then, at best, you will get a response patchworked from various WT articles of varying age, glossing over your central concerns and focusing on how wonderful JWs are and how amazing the preaching work is and how incredible the hope of the new world will be.

    Still I could be wrong. But please, share it with us. And good luck!

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    kepler,

    you many also want to get a hold of a pdf file of Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz. Mr Franz was a Governing Body member who left after finding out the truth about the WTS, only later to be disfellowshiped for associating/staying friends with a X member of the cult. He wrote this book with STUNNING detailed information, dates as well as his experience with the WTS. I think you can purchase a copy via pdf format.

    But my dear, many of your questions can also be answered via your own web google search which one of the posters already suggested. For instance here's info on the NWT you're referring to below.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Translation_of_the_Holy_Scriptures

  • kepler
    kepler

    First of all, I deeply appreciate getting your informed comment on these matters. If I have had to mull over these issues for 3 or 4 years, I can only be thankful that I haven't had to deal with these issues for decades as I am sure many people who have posted their comments have.

    I notice that several people have suggested sources for further study such as Raymond Franz's books. I have looked at them and often go back to check what he had said. When I started to notice the chronological discrepancy regarding the end of the first temple, the trail eventually led to Carl Olofson's book as well. Others have remarked that they can see some sense in posting my questions on line for the record's sake; and others have told me what to expect after I place an envelope in the mail.

    I haven't mailed off as of yet, but I would like to continue with sharing my list of questions. Even as I am in the process of editing them, I suspect that it will not be possible to present them all. I just hope that I can release ones that fit this format or perhaps cover not just the same old ground.

    About a year or two ago there was an article in the Watchtower titled "Six Myths about Christianity". It was provided to me somewhat as a supplement to the reading of "What the Bible Really Teaches". Looking at the six items I would say that these were not myths but issues about Christianity in varying degrees. Issues that Christians or others should be aware of to think about. And I hope I do not lose that perspective in submitting any questions which follow.

    Question 9: Destruction of the Jerusalem, the Temple and Chronology

    After reading a discussion about the arguments for the date of Jerusalem’s destruction by Nebuchadnezzar, whether it was in 586/87 or 607 BC, I did an experiment. I used some astronomical software for predicting the positions of the sun, moon and planets and checked the position of moon for four eclipses reported during Nebuchadnezzar’s reign. I used a commercially available code named Alcyone [More on Alcyone the star later].

    To elaborate, the Babylonians in terms of Nebuchadnezzar’s years of reign have written in stone when they captured Jerusalem the first time in 597 BC in the seventh year of his reign (1 st day of Addar or 15 th of March 597BC). Accounts of the first occupation and the second can be correlated with accounts in 2 nd Kings. From these records, in my office I can sit at my desk and verify with my own calculations four lunar eclipse record from the same system of Babylonian dates: three before the destruction of the temple and one lunar eclipse after the destruction.

    15 September 591 BC

    08 February 579 BC

    02 March 567 BC

    05 September 563 BC

    I used the same tools that I used to project positions of the moon for lunar missions a decade or two in the future. By themselves these calculations confirm the accuracy of 586 BCE for destruction of the Jerusalem Temple. If Nebuchadnezzar reigned from September 605 BC to October 562 BC ( documented by British Museum clay tablets BM21946 and BM92472 – see Parker and Dubberstein, 1956 Brown University Press) and all the above eclipses are recorded based on what year they occurred during his reign, and if you can re-calculate them and find chronicles of his Jerusalem attacks as well (BM21946), I would think that is very good confirmation that Jerusalem was NOT destroyed in 607 BC – unless, of course, an adherent of this date can duplicate the lunar eclipse calculations?

    Can the Society provide such proof for its own time table?

    Question 10: Biblical Inerrancy - Jeremiah

    What is the meaning of Jeremiah 8:8? Does it have any significance for the current theocratic government?

    Question 11: Scriptures Identified after Constantine by Apostate Church

    It is the assertion by Joseph Rutherford and successors that Christianity was distorted by clerics when Constantine (280-336AD) came to power. From what I can tell, it is assumed that clerics usurped scriptural authority and that primitive Christianity was closer to what Christ desired than what followed. In fact, it is claimed that the organizational church became a tool of Satan, leaving to conjecture if anything done in the Christian community prior to 1914 or 1919 was to any effect at all.

    Yet it is quite clear that The Bible was not canonized until decades after the reign of Constantine and the contents of a proposed Bible or canon were deliberated on by these same clerics. The current canon was first suggested by Athanasius in 367 AD. Joseph Rutherford in this would appear to be his most orthodox of followers. Adoption of the canon had to await church councils at the end of that or the next century. Prior to this, in the first century – the books were not written at all – and in the 2 nd only a few books were used by any Christian groups and often of a conflicting nature. Many books, gospels, epistles and revelations were debated hotly for decades and the arguments against some of the existing canon resonate today. In fact, one of the oldest existing Bibles the Syriaic codex in Chaldean did not include Revelations.

    So, in effect, how is it possible that the Christians which compiled the Scriptures are apostate from the church when Christianity prior to this exercise had no canon or common Bible to serve them at all?

    Question 12: Daniel and Hebrew Testament: Among the Prophets or Writings

    At least for the past thousand years, in the Jewish equivalent of the Old Testament ,the TaNaKh, written and studied in Hebrew, there are three main divisions of the books contained therein. The first section is basically the Torah or Penteteuch sometimes referred to as the Law; the second is the Nev’im or Prophets; and the third is the Kethuvim or Writings.

    It is significant to note that Daniel is NOT placed among Prophets, but in the Writings.

    It was the Protestant Reformation Bible in which it was assumed that Daniel was not only history but the writings of a prophet. Did the Watch Tower and Bible Tract Society ever give consideration to the reason why there is such a discrepancy between the two groups, assuming as claimed, that Jehovah’s Witnesses are not in effect a branch of Protestantism? And if the translation provided should be called the Hebrew Scriptures, why then does it resemble the Protestant Old Testament more than the Septuagint or Masoeretic Text?

  • mP
    mP

    @kepler

    A3

    The serpent is no where identified as Satan, xians just assume that it is.

    You may not be aware of the fact that in the OT, serpents were the messengers of God, which is why they can speak and why Adam and Eve were not surprised and listened. THey were familiar with snakes flying down from heaven and giving them a messenger from God. Genesis 3 also says the snake would be punished and made to wiggle on the ground or words to that affect. What the snake lost was his wings.

    The problem of the flying snakes is the bible uses the term Seraphim which were just flying firey snakes. I will not explain why snakes were considered great creatures, as thats quite a lengthy discussion but this is a fact found in the OT and NT. Lets not forget Jesus said be wise as serpents, what that actually means or why they thought snakes were smart is posible related to their role as messengers of God. After all God would only entrust his important messengers to capable communicators.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraphim

    Literally "burning ones", the word seraph is normally a synonym for serpents when used in the Hebrew Bible . A seminal passage in the Book of Isaiah (6.1-8) used the term to describe fiery six-winged beings that fly around God's throne singing "holy, holy, holy". This throne scene, with its triple invocation of holiness (a formula that came to be known as the trisagion ), profoundly influenced subsequent theology , literature and art . Its influence is frequently seen in works depicting angels , heaven and apotheosis . Seraphs are mentioned as celestial beings in an influential Hellenistic work, the Book of Enoch , and the Book of Revelation . Tradition places seraphs in the fifth rank of ten in the Jewish angelic hierarchy and the highest rank in the Christian angelic hierarchy

    We also have the story of the Snake God who Moses used to cure the snake bitten jews. For whatever reason it took 500 years for Josiah to destroy as a idol. Originally the Jews perceived it to be holy and to have magic powers. We of course continue this tradition qwith the Cadaceus. Many other pagan ancients also thought snakes had the same magic powers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehushtan

    The Israelites set out from Mount Hor , where Aaron was buried, to go to the Red Sea . However they had to detour around the land of Edom (Numbers 20:21, 25). Frustrated and impatient, they complained against Yahweh and Moses (Num. 21:4-5). This is the last of the complaint stories in the Book of Numbers . [7] Just east of Palestine , God plagued them with "fiery serpents" for their mumurs against Him. For the sake of repentant ones, Moses was instructed by God to build a serpent of bronze that was used as an instrument to heal those who looked upon it ( Numbers 21:4-9 ).

    ...

    The Nehushtan (or Nehustan, Hebrew: ?????? or ??? ??????), in the Hebrew Bible, was a sacred object in the form of a snake of brass upon a pole. The priestly source of the Torah says that Moses used a 'fiery serpent' to cure the Israelites fromsnakebites. ( Numbers 21:4-9 )

    King Hezekiah (reigned 715/716 – 687) instituted a religious iconoclastic reform and destroyed "the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did offer to it; and it was called Nehushtan." ( 2 Kings 18:4 ) The tradition of naming it Nehushtan is no older than the time of Hezekiah. [1]

    So again we see firey snakes.

    My reading has led me to see snakes as phallic symbols, which is something ancients were obsessed with. We can see the penis and vagina at the center of many ancient symbols and symbology. It has been said the temple of Jerusalem which faces East to meet the Sun represents the very action of sex, with the Sun being the male and the long chamber oriented to receive the male.

    It is probably not a coincidence that the word holy also has a sexual connotation in Hebrew. Most of the harlots in the Bible are not lliterally street walkers , but they were actually sacred prostitute priestesses. This is why their title is mentioned, the fact that Rahab was an important priestess is why she is mentioned along with her title in jesus linage. The story of Hosea marrying a prostitute is of course nothing more than a priest marrying a rival priestess froma different god/godess to unite the two religions. Religon was a business back then just like today, gaining much money from donations, sacrifices and so on.

    We also see Caleb, Joshuas companion actually means in ancient Hebrew male prostitute! now theres something xians dont tell you.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_prostitution

    The Hebrew Bible uses two different words for prostitute, zonah (???)‎ [14] [15] and kedeshah (????)‎. [16] [17] The word zonah simply meant an ordinary prostitute or loose woman. [15] But the word kedeshah literally means "consecrated (feminine form)", from the Semitic root q-d-sh (???)‎ meaning "holy" or "set apart". [16]

    Whatever the cultic significance of a kedeshah to a follower of the Canaanite religion, the Hebrew Bible makes it clear that cultic prostitution had no place in Judaism. Thus Deuteronomy 23:18-19 tells followers:

    None of the daughters of Israel shall be a kedeshah, nor shall any of the sons of Israel be a kadesh.
    You shall not bring the hire of a prostitute (zonah) or the wages of a dog (keleb) into the house of the Lord your God to pay a vow, for both of these are an abomination to the Lord your God.

    The meaning of the male form kadesh or qadesh is not entirely clear. [18] The Hebrew word keleb (dog) in the next line may also signify a male dancer or prostitute, [19]

    Leaves one to wonder how they really worshipped then. HOw is a major character in the exodus given such a "wrong" name.

  • mP
    mP

    @kepler

    there is no prophecy in the Bible. The Bible has been edited many times. The apparent prophecies in the OT were written after the fact. No where does the BIble plainly state this will happen in the future, the only reason we have xians seeing prophecies is simply because of how they interrupt some text. They find some text and then redefine certain key words to mean other things.

    The classic prophecy that even Matthew claims is in the Bible is that Jesus will be born of a virgin. The text actually says the Messiah will be born of a young woman. The other classic twisting made by Matthew is that Jesus was prophecised to be born in Bethlehem. If one reads Micah 5:2 it says something quite different it says the Messiah will be born in a tribe of Bethelehem something else and a few verses later he will defeat the Assyrians someting we know jesus never did.

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    kelper, you must really dig further....

    Re Cannon: Because before and during the historical Christs arrival, there were already many others Christs that were also claiming to be the chosen one. There was also many other sects that were already un wittingly practicing forms of Christianity before the Cannon which had evolved from pagan doctrine, such as the Sun God as well as many other pagan beliefs. If you also seach the various historical codexs, there are missing books as well as book as well as added books. Also, soon after Christ death many original Christians had apostatized re Peter and Pauls letters noted. Even the Didache which is one of the oldest books found, smells of an outside Christian sect. http://www.paracletepress.com/didache.html

    At this point until one get's hold of original documents that were actually penned from the apostles, there's no way of knowing for sure. Even though Paul was a Chrisitan he came way later, and many of his letters were not law but suggestions on how to handle congregation issues. Pauls letters also reflect more of his personal personality other then what we read from various epsitols of the Historical Christ personality. From my understanding and supposedly, the only thing that actually set the Historical Christ apart from the other Christs is that this one Historical Christ, fullfilled prophacy to the letter to his death from Hebrew scripture.

    There are many videos and books with information that you seek:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRbuKDJhzU4&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKEvc8nP73o&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlucDUgMusI

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    kepler:

    Hope you don't mind a little constructive criticism. This part is a little confusing to the reader.

    To elaborate, the Babylonians in terms of Nebuchadnezzar's years of reign have written in stone when they captured Jerusalem the first time in 597 BC in the seventh year of his reign (1 st day of Addar or 15 th of March 597BC). Accounts of the first occupation and the second can be correlated with accounts in 2 nd Kings. From these records, in my office I can sit at my desk and verify with my own calculations four lunar eclipse record from the same system of Babylonian dates: three before the destruction of the temple and one lunar eclipse after the destruction.

    15 September 591 BC

    08 February 579 BC

    02 March 567 BC

    05 September 563 BC

    I used the same tools that I used to project positions of the moon for lunar missions a decade or two in the future. By themselves these calculations confirm the accuracy of 586 BCE for destruction of the Jerusalem Temple. If Nebuchadnezzar reigned from September 605 BC to October 562 BC ( documented by British Museum clay tablets BM21946 and BM92472 - see Parker and Dubberstein, 1956 Brown University Press) and all the above eclipses are recorded based on what year they occurred during his reign, and if you can re-calculate them and find chronicles of his Jerusalem attacks as well (BM21946), I would think that is very good confirmation that Jerusalem was NOT destroyed in 607 BC - unless, of course, an adherent of this date can duplicate the lunar eclipse calculations?

    Which tablets mention your eclipses (I think you meant, 1 before Jerusalem's destruction; 3 after)? Are they dated to a specific regnal year? You see, the Babylonian Chronicles can only tell us in what regnal year an event happened. But as they contain no astronomical information, they cannot tell us which BCE year that regnal year is fixed to.

  • kepler
    kepler

    AnnOMaly,

    Greetings. In reply to your query on constructive criticism, quite all right. My main immediate problem is not getting swamped with the problem of immediate presentation of position and addressing a wide range of responses.

    Speaking in general, by no means did I want to be the most radical in position on these issues in the discussion, but I personally feel reluctant to pursue some of the more radical lines of inquiry such as examining the primitive paganism or Freudian substrata in the scripture. For a start, I am not qualified. Secondly, since what I have been through the last few years was unexpected and very unpleasant, my immediate objective is to show that there are ways to stand up to what has been a steam roller process. Perhaps the way MacDuff gots a shot at MacBeth, speaking of prophecy. Or tying down a slippery eel.

    But back to your question.

    Reconstructing an exercise ( or two ) from over a year ago, given that that years in the Babylonian, Assyrian or Persian systems recorded on tablets were measured in terms of the accession and death of kings, then it is understood that events in the reign of a king such as Nebuchadnazzar have to be identified based on a system that transcends this type of chronology - unless he is continued to mentioned as reference point for subsequent kings. However, as probably many of our readers are already aware, the Babylonian calendar is very similar to the Hebrew calendar ( including names for months and start in the spring). In all likelihood the Hebrew calendar was so derived. With the aid of the book cited above( Babylonian Chronology 626BC to AD 75 by Richard A. Parker and Waldo H. Dubberstein, Brown University Press, Providence RI, 1956), it is possible to transform from present day calendars to corresponding dates described by reigning king, month and day of month. The reasons for this are the lunar and solar eclipses themselves. In addition, Babylonian and English texts of the first raid on Jerusalem, 597 BC, can be examined in Chronicle of Chaldean Kings by D. J. Wiseman, British Museum. Other regnal records include those of Nabonidus. These were published by Chicago University press about 1925.

    But when it comes to nailing dates in the mideast in the first millenium it is the the solar eclipse of 15 June 763 BC provided by the Assyrians.

    From my spreadsheet records, it was not clear to me how many eclipses in total were available to bracket the 586/87siege period, but the four dates selected I obtained from the LBAT 1419 and LBAT 1420 record sets, otherwise referred to by their British Museum catalog numbers,BM 38462 for Nebuchadnazzar II records between 604 BC and 576 BC, the 6 month 29 year of his reign. Elsewhere I believe there is some redundancy.

    In loading the dates into the Alcyone software I discovered I had to "re-correct" for the fact that the software had a year zero, so the dates had to be adjusted by a year. But I searched for 180 degree right ascension differences between the sun and the moon (opposite sides of the earth) and declinations of the same magnitude but opposite sense ( e.g., 15 degrees north and south celestian latitude). It worked on all four.

    Now, I suppose reservations can be raised about the scientific procedure or the data set, but then again, I am not an archeo-astronomical laboratory but someone with some reasonable technical and language training and a personal computer. I didn't have all this ready for the discussion when some gentlemen came to my door and insisted on a 607 BC date for Jerusalem's fall to Babylonian siege. But in the future, perhaps these issues might be possible to resolve or study with more accuracy with an appropriate phone app.

    Will try to get a new "question" post out later.

    Best regards to all.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    ... but the four dates selected I obtained from the LBAT 1419 and LBAT 1420 record sets ...

    OK got it. If you were going to write the WTS, that would need to be specified to be clear IMHO.

    Be warned: regarding the inconsistencies in their 607/1914 chronological scheme, the WTS have been challenged on this over and over and over again, ad nauseum since Russell's day. As blond-moment said, they don't care. At best, you will get a polite letter which will likely not properly address your objections. An example of the kind of reply you may expect back can be found at,

    http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp275/kleey48/29Jan09_p1.jpg

    http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp275/kleey48/29Jan09_p2.jpg

    http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp275/kleey48/29Jan09_p3.jpg

    By the way, is it Alcyone Ephemeris you have? I have an older version of it. Astronomers need a year zero :-)

    Oh. And you may find THIS PROGRAM simpler when looking for eclipses.

  • kepler
    kepler

    AnnOmaly,

    Greetings. Yes I have a copy of Alcyone Ephemeris. Also, I downloaded the letters and and other Alcyone version. Although the principal reasons I use ephemeris programs are NOT related to challenging the WatchTower, I am curious if the alternate version of the program would be more convenient for a notebook vs. laptop application.

    To have come as far as I have, I am fully aware of how many ways I can either be intimidated or brushed off. But at the same time, the process generates some imperatives of its own, some obviously personal. And it not simply to address 1 question. I hope to have at least 40 in the envelope and also make many of them a matter of public record. That's not the ususal way these things are submitted, right?

    So since we are talking about 607 BC, some introduction.

    Some Problems

    Since the most detailed critical information related to Jehovah Witnesses is usually written by people who have left the organization, it is almost impossible to introduce their remarks to those remaining within based on the organizational attitude toward those who have left. As a result, I have found myself examining other old publications of the organization. These have included yearbooks (e.g. 1934 and 1928), plus books by Russell and Rutherford. In addition there is the public testimony of the Members of the Governing Board in the 1954Scotland legal case L. Strachan vs. E. Walsh.

    In the case below (and elsewhere), I have drawn some from the 1934 Yearbook to supplement discussions in “What the Bible Really Teaches”. The 1934 Yearbook is also well known for its appendix enclosure of Joseph Rutherford’s open letter to Adolph Hitler, declaring his shared disdain for Jews, priests and Jesuits and how he would like to work with the new Herr Chancellor; for details read the Declaration of Facts. But also enclosed in the yearbooks of those days were daily scripture readings, expanded on several fold by passages from Watch Tower articles probably written under Rutherford’s direction as well. Here are some illustrative cases.

    -------------------------------

    September 20, 1934

    I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them: until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High. Dan. 7: 21, 22.

    Jehovah’s faithful devoted ones on the earth constitute his sanctuary class, and hence his saints. While speaking great words with its mouth, like its father, Satan, the seventh world power does violence to Jehovah’s people. It was "Christendom", the Anglo- American empire system, made up of political, commercial, military elements, clergy, secret-service spies, and the strong-arm squad, that made war on the saints following the casting of Satan out of heaven. This war against God’s people reached a climax in 1918, at which time this beastly seventh world power did "wear out the saints of the Most High". But now the time has arrived to execute destructive or fiery judgment against the world organizations that have so long defamed the name of the Most High.

    Watch Tower -15 June 1933

    ----

    November 20, 1934

    And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. John 17: 19.

    It cannot be said positively why the Lord permitted the thought of ’going to heaven’ to have the chief place in the mind of so many of his people, but we do know that the Lord permits men to exercise their own free will. If one has a selfish motive in understanding the truth of God’s Word it is likely he will fall into error. Jesus and the apostles stressed the importance of love for God, which means an unselfish devotion to Jehovah; yet many deemed it of greatest importance to get themselves ready to go to heaven rather than to show their love for God. It may be asked: Does error or misconception matter much, as long as one is honest and does the best he knows how? Does it affect one seriously? It certainly does! Sincerity and honesty in following an error does not build one

    up. It is the truth that sanctifies.

    Watch Tower- 15 January 1934.

    --------

    November 27, 1934

    Hew down the tree . . . : let his heart be changed from man’s, and let a beast’s heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him. Daniel. 4: 14, 16.

    The tree stump (picturing mankind) with bands iron and copper around it shows the non-existence or non-activity of God’s kingdom in the earth. The beginning of the counting of the "seven times" must wait until the overturning of Israel’s last king, Zedekiah, in 606 B.C. From that time the scripture applies: "It shall be no more, until he come whose right it is" to have the kingdom arid rulership of the world. At Zedekiah’s overthrow this decree against Israel was entered and there it was that Satan became the god of the whole world. Then and there the seven times began to count; meaning that God would not interfere with the beastly rule of earth until the end of that specific period of time. Those seven times, beginning in 606B.C. and extending over 2,520 years, ended in 1914, when Christ was enthroned by Jehovah.

    Watch Tower 15 February 1934.

    ----------------------------------------------------

    There are some problems with the devotional daily readings excerpted above. In the last reading above for 27 November 1934, note the scriptural date. In the book “What Does the Bible Really Teach?, left at my office door in May of 2009 with a cheery endorsement ( “I thought you might enjoy this book.”), on pages 216-217 this same matter is discussed as follows:

    “How and when though, did God’s rulership begin to be ‘trampled by the nations’? This happened in 607 BCE when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. “Jehovah’s throne” became vacant, and the time of the kings who descended from David was interrupted (2 Kings 25: 1-26). Would this trampling go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king Zedekiah: ‘Remove the turban and lift off the crown… It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right and I must give it to him’.”

    The Ezekiel quote is from chapter 21. But did you notice the change of date there?

    The later publication says that Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians in 607 BCE. At the bottom of the page there is a footnote explaining that there was no year zero in either BC or AD chronologies.

    Yet the date of Christ’s “rulership” and Satan’s casting down from heaven remained the same? Why was it not moved to 1915? Was there an announcement from heaven to the theocratic ministry to the effect that “basically you were right about the arrival time, but actually your calendar of events should be corrected to a year earlier”?

    Let us consider again the reading for 24 November 1934: “Does error or misconception matter much?”

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Any evidence at all for 607 or 606 BC?

    Both Charles Taze Russell and Joseph Rutherford grew up as Presbyterians. Before they both went on their own printing sprees, prior to the American Civil War an earlier American Presbyterian minister created a publishing sensation known as “Barnes Bible Notes”. A 17-volume set of commentaries on nearly every verse of the Bible prepared over several decades, the work is filled with cross references to other verses and exegetical texts. Used by ministers across the country to prepare sermons and originating with Dr. Barnes’ lectures to his Bible study classes, the books were purchased and read by maybe millions of American churchgoers. As a matter of fact, I have heard that it was even used for many decades, if not to the present day, at the JW Brooklyn headquarters.

    During the last year, I met a trucker and retired railroad engineer who was setting up a website with ancient history chronologies where he relied greatly on Barnes. As a result of discussions from time to time, he decided to give me a preview look. I have to say that he is the ONLY other instance I have ever encountered beside the Jehovah’s Witnesses who claimed that Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed in 607 BC. My acquaintance based this assertion on a Barnes citation. I tracked down Barnes to find out why or how he came up with that and here is what it says.

    Daniel 1:1

    In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem - This event occurred, according to Jahn ("History of the Hebrew Commonwealth"), in the year 607 b.c., and in the 368th year after the revolt of the ten tribes. According to Usher, it was in the 369th year of the revolt, and 606 b.c. The computation of Usher is the one generally received, but the difference of a year in the reckoning is not material. Compare Michaelis, Anmerkung, zu 2 Kon. xxiv. 1. Jehoiakim was a son of Josiah, a prince who was distinguished for his piety, Kings2 22:2; Chronicles2 35:1-7. After the death of Josiah, the people raised to the throne of Judah Jehoahaz, the youngest son of Josiah, probably because he appeared better qualified to reign than his elder brother, Kg2 23:30; Ch2 36:1. He was a wicked prince, and after he had been on the throne three months, he was removed by Pharaoh-Nechoh, king of Egypt, who returned to Jerusalem from the conquest of Phoenicia, and placed his elder brother, Eliakim, to whom he gave the name of Jehoiakim, on the throne, Kg2 23:34; Ch2 36:4.

    -----

    He speaks of Nebuchadnazzar but nothing of king Zedekiah. But now look at what Barnes says for

    2 Kings 25:8 the verse being

    On the seventh day of the fifth month in the nineteenth year of Nebuchadnezzarking of Babylon, Nebuzaradan commander of the imperial guard, an official of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem.

    The nineteenth year of king Nebuchadnezzar - 586 B.C., if we count from the real date of his accession (604 B.C.); but 587 B.C., if, with the Jews, we regard him as beginning to reign when he was sent by his father to recover Syria and gained the battle of Carchemish (in 605 B.C.).

    On that day (verse 9 NJB)“He burned down the Temple of Yahweh, the royal palaces and all the houses in Jerusalem.”

    Now, how about the earliest assertion of this date within the organizations publications - and why.

    Question 13: Destruction of Jerusalem, Origins of 606/607 BC from Charles Taze Russell Writings

    The earliest instances that I can find of attributing Watch Tower dates to the destruction of the First Temple in Jerusalem (606 or 607 BC) is to the works of Charles Taze Russell, Studies of the Scripture. Because this date was later revised by a year after the passing of both Russell and Rutherford, I say dates. In any case, Russell gives two basic arguments for 606 BC: one is derived from Ptolemy’s King’s list which he appears to be alone even in his era as interpreting as such. The other was his studies in pyramidology – also included in the Studies of the Scriptures series sold by the Watch Tower Society for about a decade after Russell’s death. The second argument, however, was discredited by the Society during Rutherford’s administration and in fact proclaimed as “Satanic”. Thus, while this removes at least half of the support for Russell’s argument, it also brings up another question. Based on advertisements emplaced in the Society Year Books during the 1920s, I believe that the Studies in Scriptures hardbound were priced at about since dollars and many hundreds of thousands were sold. Furthermore, in divorce proceedings, C. T. Russell made it clear that proceeds from the purchase of these books were not his property but those of the Society. But since the book promoting this argument was distributed by the Society and then declared highly defective, was there any effort to recall the product and refund the customers? If not, what was done with the funds that were obtained by distributing a book and theory which the Society declared to be Satanic?

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