Impact on the receiving end of "What the Bible Really Teaches"

by kepler 30 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • kepler
    kepler

    Several years ago my fiance had a traumatic experience and decided to return to being a JW.

    As a result she insisted that we read "What the Bible Really Teaches". Then later I agreed to take instruction with house visits by an Elder and his associates on weekends with the same purpose.

    Although I have a background very foreign to all of this, I took the matter very seriously and studied the material presented very carefully, doing a lot of research. My suspicions were immediately aroused when the pamphlet and my instructors kept insisting that Babylon was destroyed by Jehovah (via some Isaiah citations, Cyrus and hand-waving) as punishment for desecration of the Temple. Things took off from there and I assumed that every other line in the document and citation was a manipulation, misconstrued or a lie. I want to tell someone, but everyone locally brushes me off - and my relations with my former fiance disintegrated to zero. In that regard we may as well have been trapped in the final pages of Orwell's "1984" after respective visits to Room 101...

    But to sum up, one of her last correspondences to me was not to disturb the Elders or Overseers at the local congregations. Take my issues to Headquarters.

    Recently I wrote back to her that now I am ready. How do I do it? But in response she wrote , "You have to write to them like the rest of us - and I don't want to get involved in this." I discovered that if I go to the official website or the Watch Tower, I can fill out a page to arrange for more home visits and the equivalent of another series of inoculations.

    When I reported back to the Kingdom Hall elders - they added the note that I had to write via the mail. "Would it be answered?" "Oh, yes. They answer all of them." I've got a long list of questions and issues and it is growing. But I want to make sure that someone sees the result of my research. I want to make sure that my questions exist on line somewhere. I hope that this will be the means to do that. And I can report back on the answers as well...

    ...That's how I introduced this topic when I found a discussion on the topic: "The Watchtower is telling us to stop asking questions", based on a reply to readers' questions in the 15 October 2010 edition. One of the followers of the discussion topic had suggested that I start a new topic regarding the above. The pamphlet "What the Bible Really Teaches" looked like as good a place to start as any. All the anonymous contributors to that document helped make 2009-2012 possible.

    As I expect to report in further detail, I had never thought much about the destruction of the ancient world's cities and capitals in the first millenium BC. But yet when I was given "What the Bible Really Teaches" as an introductory guide, I was astounded at the levels of deception surrounding this topic.

    To start with, the only evidence I could find of Babylon's destruction (introduced as a concept in page 23 to support the notion of the Bible as a book of prophecy) was its complete leveling by Assyrian monarch Sennacherib in 689 BC, matching up very well with the truncated Isaiah 14:22-23. For good measure he FLOODED it, as Isaiah notes in the full quotation. In something of a bait and switch we are led to believe by the "WTBRT" text that the arrival of Cyrus in Babylon augured its destruction and then we are given Daniel's account of reading the handwriting on the wall for Belshazzar... and the quick succession after the banquet.

    Not to get too diverted by this, I can cite numerous instances of Babylon continuing to exist for hundreds of years including Alexander the Great contemplating it as one of his capitals and hence dying there. If I look in the back of the NWT there is an appendix that claims Peter wrote his epistles there. Not that I necessarily believe that, but can we have it two ways either?

    We are also left wondering why Daniel in his official duties did not see fit to have Belshazzar read chapters 44 and 45 of Isaiah himself. Right? But even taking into account discrepancies related to Jerusalem and the Temple's destruction between all other sources and the version initiated by Charles Taze Russell and successors, it is difficult for me to accept the idea that Babylon was destroyed early in the 7th century BC for acts it perpetrated ( to punish Israel or not) in the 6th. Even to suggest that Is 14:22-23 supports this - there is some explaining to do.

    By other accounts, including Scriptures, Cyrus was received as a conquering hero by the Babylonians dissatisfied with Nabonidus absenteeism. Nabonidus, the guy who had a son named Belshazzar who Daniel thought was Nebuchadnezzar's son. Anyway, Sennacherib, Esarhaddon ( the restorer of Babylon in an official Assyrian ceremony), the Babylonian and Persian kings all left stone or original records. And it gets much better than this. When I connected Daniel 9:1-2 with two other such sources (Greek and Persian), I just about fell out of my chair. But if anyone already knows what I am talking about here, then you are welcome to come to the punchline.

    Recently though, I noticed that the Watchtower had an article about how the first chapter of Exodus was accurate because Israelites in Egypt just might actually have done some brickmaking there like they surely would have been doing in Mesopotamia. I am sure we are all glad to know this, but did someone ask this question via a post in the mail and expressed their concerns? Or did the authors simply anticipate the question and provide an anwer? Before I provide such anonymous assist to the Editorial Committee I would like for my questions at least to see the light of day.

    Some of these questions are of historical nature; some, the contemplation of cherry picking scriptural verses and building logical structures (?) from the result. Also, now and then I was actually able to make a test.

    Best regards.

    If I am going over

  • blond-moment
    blond-moment

    They aren't interested. The only thing they would want from you is the legal paperwork of kicking you out (DF) or getting you to say you are leaving without duress (DA letter). It doesn't sound like those apply to you. Even if they did I wouldn't give it to them.

    As far as truth...they aren't intersted. Carl Olof Johnsen tried for years, and was just DF'd in the end for his troubles. Freeminds.org - Discover The Truth About Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society - Downloads | Freeminds.org - Discover The Truth About Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    Large religious organizations aren't really concerned about finding and presenting the exacting Truth of their expressed doctrines.

    It is for this reason any large religion will ostracize any of their members when questioning the already established doctrines.

    The hierarchal game of power pointing up to these leaders gets broken apart if this is done, which usually they will try to protect.

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    kepler, yes indeed post your Q@A's here so your info is documented, and more will see the lies the WTS is feeding the masses.

    But note, the elders will only give you the run around with the same BS that's already in the WTS literature. If you're lucky you may get an elder or two (though they will never admit it to your face) somthing to think about. This will be only for your own personal satisfaction in knowing you were correct in your summery of them. Your X is currently enslaved in the WTS snare so your info will fall on deaf ears. What you can do is have your backed up research saved along with the BS they're going to give you, to show her if she ever comes around.

    Good Luck

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    I found a couple of sources you might check:

    http://see_the_truth.webs.com/Old%20Testament.html

    http://see_the_truth.webs.com/New%20Testament.html

    (you will probably have to paste these links onto your browser to see the sites. Warning: If you are hard-core Christian, these sites contain material that will be offensive to your religion.)

    These sites contain links (again, you will paste the source they were plagiarized from into the Bible into your search engine) to the sources that many of your scriptures and doctrines were plagiarized from into your Bible. You will need to research the articles of interest from multiple sources, again using your search engine(s). Chances are good that, if you do that, you will find out that your Bible teaches you to be a good slave to your Jewish masters, and that the original material is much better if you are interested in spirituality. At the very least, you will find the true history of your Bible. At that, from a source you will not find in your Washtowel littera-trash.

    Fact is, it's the doctrines that you will be able to research, not specific scriptures. Even so, you will get a pretty good idea of how the Bible is nothing more than a bunch of corrupted, plagiarized legends copied from ancient myth and tampered with so you won't get any spiritual benefit.

  • mP
    mP

    Its amazng how the center of the universe is the temple. GOd lets the Romans conquer the world so he can punish the jews for false worship. God lets Babylon conquer the jews for false worship. Everything on earth revolves around this small temple in some small country. He sends armies to fight and men to die, just so eventually that army will come and punish those jews...talk about narcissism.

  • kepler
    kepler

    Here are some initial very general questions. More specific and detailed ones are in queue. Should anyone wish to reply or answer on these, I think that is fair game. Some questions such as matters of organization can problably be answered by anyone who understands the administrative setup. I am not a member, but someone who received instruction and did some of my own research. And after all, I just might have some things wrong....

    Question 1: Organization and Responsibility

    As a result of contact, instruction and discussion, I have found many discrepancies in Jehovah’s Witnesses publications which the pioneers, publishers or elders I have spoken with have been unable or unwilling to explain. In some cases they say, “Well, this is simply what I believe.” But that is not the point, especially if they are unaware of the issue or details in the first place. The problem is that I often find that information provided in publications is false, distorted or attributed incorrectly. I often go to check on the Bible passages, the cited articles or the stated information and find it distorted, missing important details or simply false.

    Were similar tactics and distortions used in political campaigns, there would be widespread public protest.

    I am aware that in the past decade there has been significant reorganization of the Society with several new companies responsible for various parts of its operation. So, as a result, in cases where publishers, ministers or elders cannot provide an answer, whom do I contact if I have questions about:

    a. texts presented in Ministry School?

    b. text of the pamphlet “What does the Bible Really Teach?”

    c. articles included in the “Watch Tower”?

    d. explanations and translations of texts in the Bible?

    Question 2: NWT and Anonymity – Of Translations and the Scriptural Authorship Itself

    Regarding the “Anonymity of the translators of the New World Testament”:

    In some discussions of the New World Testament, official spokespersons have indicated that the original translators in the 1940s and 50s requested that their identities remain anonymous, citing a scriptural tradition of anonymity. If the anonymity is in accordance with “the humble tradition of the authors of Scripture”, to which books of the Bible are the Watch Tower officials referring? In many instances, where authorship is indicated, it is often a matter of controversy. In fact, as illustrated by the writing of Eusebius, claims of authorship were often a controversy in collecting and reviewing a set of books to make up Old and New Testaments. However, examining the appendices to the New World Testament, all the books of the Bible are identified by where, when and by whom they were written. Pamphlets, Watch Tower articles and elders very emphatically state that this or that epistle, gospel, revelation or book of the Pentateuch is written by an apostle, prophet or, in the last case, Moses. An egregious example in the NT would be attributing Hebrews to Paul since he is no way identified as the author; only by its placement following his other writings where he is so named. In cases where there are issues with the translation, how can it be argued that anonymity is a profession of modesty based on a Scriptural tradition ( in fact argued mostly to the contrary), especially if translational objectivity or accuracy is called into question?

    Question 3: Genesis and Satan

    In the sequence of events begun in Genesis, chapter 3 with the temptation of Eve by a serpent and Adam’s capitulation and complicity in the crime, the story is subsequently dropped - in Genesis and as far as I can tell for the rest of the Old Testament. Can you tell me which books and chapters in the OT or Hebrew Scriptures pick up the story again? Can you tell me where in the OT the serpent in the Garden is identified as Satan? Then, finally, when we begin to read the New Testament where we find Satan and his demon hosts hiding behind nearly every tree, what happened in the meantime?

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    Hi kepler.

    You are right about selective use of prophetic verses when insisting on a literalistic approach to appying them (JWs aren't alone in this). With regard to Babylon's demise, yes, time and again, certain verses in Isa. 14 (which, as you've observed, more likely involves its destruction by Assyria) and Jer. 51 are used to say 'See? Babylon became a pile of rubble. God's word came true in every detail!' Even though this happened many centuries later, the context of those prophecies indicate that the city's destruction would be as a result of violent conquest, not of gradual economic/political demise. There's a disconnect which the WTS doesn't appear to see - even though it recognizes the city wasn't destroyed straight away.

    There are posters better equipped to discuss this than I am, but I think one has a choice between,

    - thinking prophecies are bunkum anyway, or

    - better understanding the genre, its use of language - poetry and hyperbole, and not try to tie down all the details.

    If one takes a rigidly literalistic view of prophetic fulfillments, then there will be a great deal of cherry-picking, ignoring lots of details that do not literally fit.

  • InterestedOne
    InterestedOne

    Question 1: You could ask the elders to provide you with the correct postal address of the Watchtower branch office in your country. Then, you could type your question(s) out on paper & mail them to the address. After a while, you may receive a response letter in the mail. The responder may attempt to answer your question(s) & provide some references to Watchtower literature, or he may just say that the Watchtower cannot realistically attempt to answer every conceivable question from every person in the world and simply decline to answer your question(s).

    Jehovah's Witnesses believe that if you have a so-called "right heart condition," you will join their religion even if you have unanswered questions about it. To them, if you have a so-called right heart condition, you will wait on Jehovah with your unanswered questions and in the meantime join their religion, which they believe is analogous to getting into Noah's ark to escape a catastrophe (similar to the biblical flood, but this time it's the war of armageddon) that will happen any day now. They are a doomsday cult and are not interested in scholarship. Any impression of scholarship conveyed by their literature is just that - an impression they create to attract people to join.

  • Sapphy
    Sapphy

    Once you realise the ONLY unchanging doctrine JWs are expected to believe is that the society is God's Organisation and the Governing Body is his mouthpiece, nothing else matters. Everything is is sacrificed to the god of conformity, miscalled 'unity'.

    For JWs thoughtcrime is real and you could lose your family if you don't crimestop.

    crimestop - Orwell's definition: "The faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments... and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. "

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