"try to stop hating, you are wasting your time with god u believe does not even exist."
I don't hate him. Neither do I hate Santa Claus. I am trying to help people who spend their lives worshipping this God to see who it is they worship, this is what freed me mentally from being a JW.
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One 754 Replies latest watchtower bible
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defender of truth
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DATA-DOG
Hey guys, don't forget Psalm 115:3. This is the best the Gurus at Beth-hell can provide.
DD
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defender of truth
Here is the original question, which no theist has satisfactorily been able to answer yet:
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"Theists, why does God allow suffering..
..specifically, the suffering of animals. You can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to God etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. But how can you love a God that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with God, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways?" -
Phizzy
“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
― Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life
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defender of truth
Thanks for that Phizzy.
It just begs the question, how someone can believe in a God that cares and yet leaves his creatures in such a cold and pitiless universe, with no evidence of 'you are worth more than many sparrows'. In fact, as your quote highlights, there are probably sparrows getting their guts ripped out by a hawk somewhere, just while I type this post! And who 'designed' the hawk?? -
Saved_JW
When I speak about suffering=bad I am speaking purely in philosophical terms.
What is the basis for saying [suffering=bad]
one can even make the case that [living =bad]
There is no scientific basis for making such an assertion. only feelings of pure conjecture. which is the case Cofty is making.
unless of course the basis for suffering=bad is purely based on subjective emotions
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Saved_JW
Because the entire basis of the argument here is this
Suffering = Bad [assertion] God allows suffering; ergo God is bad
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cofty
What is the basis for saying [suffering=bad]
Imagine the worse possible suffering for everybody. A situation where there is absolutely no pleasure for anybody and unmitagated physical and emotional suffering of every conscious creature on the planet.
Can we agree this is bad?
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Saved_JW
I don't know cofty. Your asking me to resort to my emotions as a standard for bad. That's the entire point.
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Saved_JW
Why should my feelings or your feelings matter?