My JW Brother-in-Law's Crisis of Conscience

by arko_n9ne 26 Replies latest jw experiences

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  OnTheWayOut

  Steve2, I haven't kept track of any back-and-forth here, but I was thinking your accusation was over-the-top. They share a computer and [he] put a few files there to help his b-i-l. He's able to keep track of the fact that someone takes access to those files. It's not hard for his b-i-l to realize where the files come from and you don't know more than that, yet you say "There's something more than a little unethical about your thread" and go on to say he's using "skillful dishonesty."

  Even if it were "skillful dishonesty," (which I would argue against) it is not your call to say it's unethical.

  If I were to hire Steve Hassan or some cult-exit therapist to sit next to my wife on an 8-hour flight and use some "insider information" about her, in order to help her use her own mind to think for herself, I don't give a crap that someone like you would call that unethical and I would also take offense strongly to any such suggestions.

  If he were leaving pornography on the desktop of a minor, and keeping track of the minor accessing it, okay then. But otherwise, I cannot see Steve2's point here at all. The man is free to address the leaving of files openly, delete the files, ignore the files, or read the files. They are not pornography left for a child. They are propaganda, true. But hurray for their existence.

  I have no problem with one person here feeling that every JW has the right to be a JW without "interference" from others. I also have no problem with someone else (like me) feeling that JW's are in a dangerous mind-control cult and need a bit of help from someone willing to use what you call "skillful dishonesty." It ain't my place to try to call them out in their situation with my ethics layed over their own ethics.
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  steve2

  Thanks OntheWayOut, I appreciate your calmly reasoned response - I had in fact not noticed the reference to a shared computer - your pointing it out led me to re-read the initial post. You make some very good points.
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  arko_n9ne

  Thank you @OnTheWayOut. Very much appreciated for the third-party opinion. It wasn't going to help to have two people at odds without someone watching from outside.

  @Steve2

  I want to apologize and explain my grievances. All I have in this world is my son, and my word. My son is untouchable by the world and has no bearing on my issues at home. So on JWN, all that I have is my word. And you sought to discredit me for some reason and that meant attacking the only thing I have outside of my kid.

  I stand by my claim that I feel you were "being a colossal turd to me." As you saw in my last post, I don't like accusations when they aren't true. And I've received several untrue accusations from you on top of trying to discredit me. And I can't get over myself enough to let that go without trying to systematically tear down anyone I feel is an attacker. My responses ARE bold. They ARE aggressive and raged. But again, that goes back to that personal information that you chided me for.

  I live with two Jehovah's Witnesses and my wife (their sister, never been a JW). Six months ago, I'd been living with five JWs for four years. Every one of them critical and obnoxious with their heads so far up their butts. In 2004, I didn't know what a Jehovah's Witness was. By 2008, I was living with them because my wife had me leave a high-paying job. 2009, I found out about the irregularities in the concept of refusing transfusions. It was my first scandal I'd ever heard of. Only a month ago, I joined JWN and found literal scores of information I never knew.

  This was supposed to be the place for me to vent my JW frustrations. Otherwise, who'll hear it? Witnesses? Can't vent to my wife because it'll be seen as complaining about her family. This felt so very much like it could be a new home to me.

  And then the accusations. And then the misunderstandings.

  I didn't handle this as properly as it should have been. I probably could have been more private in our back and forth. Anger issues make me want to try to destroy an attacker in public. It's not healthy.

  As for your posting replies on my topics, I honestly want your replies. I've seen that you are educated in these matters, much more than myself. I've seen how productive and informed you are in other people's posts. Just...I'm not a bad person in any standing of the word. If something I write doesn't resonate with you, please, read it a second time. If you came to the same conclusion, it's more than likely the tone I went for. So call me out then, if you feel it's necessary.

  Going forward with that advice, if there is a reply from you that may offend me, I will understand how you came to your conclusions. I will formulate my opinions or counter points. And I will politely send them in a PM to you for further discussion, so I'm not tearing my shirt off in the JWN forums, dancing around like a chimp.

  ~Ryan Kent
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  skeeter1

  How much would you charge to fix a teenager's computer?
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  arko_n9ne

  @skeeter1 lmao. i get that question alot. what's wrong with it?
• 

  TD

  This is just a general observation, which is not directed to or at anybody on this thread

  There is a wide spread internet notion that if you own or co-own the computer, you can do pretty do much anything you want with it. When either a husband or a wife suspects the other of cheating, that is invariably the reason given for unauthorized access to user accounts, email and the installation of surveillance software.

  Ownership is not the issue though. Most of us own the phones in our homes, yet recording the conversations of other adults (Including our spouse) without their knowledge is usually illegal.

  As an I.T. person, I've paid good money and gone to seminars presented by attorneys on this subject. In the U.S., unauthorized access of the email of another adult is actionable both civilly and criminally under 18 U.S.C. Sec 2511.

  The courts are split so far on whether this also includes your spouse. The Fourth, Sixth, Eighth, Tenth, and Eleventh Circuits have all held that interspousal wiretapping and interception of email is actionable under Title III. The Second and Fifth Circuits have held that Title III does not apply to interspousal relations.

  Sixteen states so far in the U.S. have enacted legislation that under most circumstances prohibits monitoring the electronic activities of another adult. (Law enforcement is a pretty obvious exception) The most aggressive state by far has been Texas, where a few people have actually received prison sentences for installing keyloggers on a computer used by other adult family members

  I haven't mentioned any of this to suggest that arko_n9ne has crossed the line here. Dropping documents on the desktop of another user is not the same thing. I'm just pointing out that there is a line.
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  Knowsnothing

  Yeah TD, what arko did is pretty much child's play. His BIL well could have deleted those files and that probably would've been the end of it. The question is, is it illegal for him to keep tabs of how much CoC is used? I mean, it's basically a shared file, so..... I don't really see the problem?
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  james_woods

  Just as an outside observation - I think I would rather walk the hot coals on a south sea island than share a computer with ANYBODY - let alone with my brother in law.
• 

  TD

  The question is, is it illegal for him to keep tabs of how much CoC is used? I mean, it's basically a shared file, so..... I don't really see the problem?

  AFAIK there is no problem here at all. What I said was only cautionary. The legal climate has changed so drastically in the last few years, that many I.T. people don't know exactly where the line is drawn anymore.
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  NomadSoul

  That was clever. I would've started the computer in safe mode and logged in as administrator and you can have easier access that way.

  I'll give Steve2 some more unethical things he can whine about. How about leaving your Wireless connection with no password protection and see if your neighbors are dumb enough to connect to it thinking they're getting free internet. Leaving their network wide open. Some even have several computers where they share files. And is not hard to send them a trojan to open a few other ports.

  Hopefully your brother in law wakes up from the cult.