Did God know Adam and Eve will Sin? - JW perspective

by bioflex 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • bioflex
    bioflex

    I read about this topic sometime ago in one awake mag (cant rememer which one). And from the JW perspective, He didnt know which means it took him by suprise or which makes it seem God is not as almighty as we would believe. This is their reasoning.

    http://www.watchtower.org/e/20110101a/article_01.htm

    => Still, someone may object, ‘But how could an all-wise God not have known?’ Granted, a facet of Jehovah’s great wisdom is his capability to know “from the beginning the finale.” ( Isaiah 46:9, 10 ) However, he does not have to use this capability, just as he does not always have to use his immense power to the full. Jehovah wisely uses his ability of foreknowledge selectively. He uses it when it makes sense to do so and fits the circumstances. <=

    The first problem i see here is using the word WISE/WISDOM.

    an all-wise , Jehovah’s great wisdom

    Why didnt they say Jehovah's great knowledge, which would basically change the meaning of the statement. Now if we should consider the scripture they quoted.

    Isaiah 46: 10 = Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

    From the scripture it is iminent that God KNOWS/ all KNOWING, that is why he can declare the end from the beginning. One can be wise without being knowledgable of something.

    Then they say this

    => Jehovah wisely uses his ability of foreknowledge selectively. <=

    Now to me this is quite absurd. Having the ability to know does not mean you know. And why would God be selective about applying his ability of forknowledge. This literally means God could have prevented the disaster in the garden of eden if He has exercised said ability which would have semed reasonable.

    Instead we see in the scriptures that God allows things to happen for a purpose, it is for an ensample unto us. Like in the example of Job, looking at the nature of humans the only justifiable reason why God allowed such evil to befall him was becaue He already knew Job would stand the test.

    Imagine God losing to the devil in the case of Job, it would have been terrible, i mean He could only blame Himself for not exercising an ability to posseses right?

    Also we see in the case of Abraham, it was not until the last moment that God told Abraham to desist from harming Isaac. This shows that even though He knew Abraham will obey, principle was necessary. Its only after an act is carried out that reward is justified.

    => The ability to refrain from using foreknowledge can be illustrated with a feature of modern technology. Someone watching a prerecorded sports match has the option to watch the final minutes first in order to know the outcome. But he does not have to start that way. Who could criticize him if he chose to watch the entire match from the beginning? Similarly, the Creator evidently chose not to see how things would turn out. Rather, he chose to wait and, as events unfolded, see how his earthly children would conduct themselves. <==

    So does thim mean everything everything is unfolding like in a movie? if then whose story or script is it, and wouldnt that mean that person knows all along what is going to happen?

    => As mentioned earlier, Jehovah in his wisdom did not create the first humans as automatons programmed for a fixed course. Instead, he lovingly endowed them with free will. <==

    Exactly, but in his KNOWLEDGE, He knew man will fall, that is why he provided a means of salvation through Jesus Christ before the world begun.

    Ephisians 1: 4 = For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

    => The Scriptures show that on many occasions God did not make use of his ability of foreknowledge. For example, when faithful Abraham went to the point of attempting to sacrifice his son, Jehovah could say: “Now I do know that you are God-fearing in that you have not withheld your son, your only one, from me.” ( Genesis 22:12 ) <=

    This act was necessary so that the devil and his angels would not have cause for complain. Imagine the devil criticizing God for blessing Abraham when he had not worked or proven himself worthy. Remmember that God is Just. You want something, work for it.

    => On the other hand, there were also occasions when the bad conduct of certain individuals caused God to “feel hurt.” Would he have felt such pain if he had long known what they would do? <=

    We live in knowledge of losing our loved ones at a point in time, yet do we mourn them before their deaths? of couse not. There are many things we know the outcome of, yet we only feel them when they happen. Like an electric shock perpahs.

    => Thus, it is only reasonable to conclude that the all-wise God did not exercise his ability of foreknowledge to know in advance that our first parents would sin. He was not so foolish as to embark on a bizarre venture, using his ability to know the outcome in advance and then staging a mere rerun of what he already knew. <=

    A typical ending for JWs = "only reasonable"

    so who is reasoning here they or God. All-Wise God but not All-knowing. Perhaps JWs worship a god who is wise to his standards but not all knowing, why else would they change their doctrine and teachings always.

  • designs
    designs

    bio- The Society does try and skirt around the ideas on predestination found in the Bible. The Bible was written by an ancient Bronze Age culture steeped in Fatalism. Some Jewish sects and some Christian groups try to hang onto that view. The Society tried to keep one foot in that world and one foot out and came away with a mishmash.

  • darth frosty
    darth frosty
    He uses it when it makes sense to do so and fits the circumstances.

    THIS^^^ Is the most laughable thing they have ever wrote!

    WHEN IT FITS THE CIRCUMSTANCES?!?

    We are talking about the 'alleged' creation of a whole new species of people, that not a 'circumstance' to use his"capability to know "from the beginning the finale." ?!?

    Its not like there could be serious reprecussions like: death on a grand scale and A THIRD OF HIS HEAVENLY CREATURES REBELING AGAINST HIM!

    And perhaps greatest of all 'sin' so great that he would 'regret that he made man!'\

    Naw why use the power of foreknowledge to avoid all that.

  • darth frosty
  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Talk about going beyond the obvious text of the Bible. What is their point? It is conjecture based on nothing. Believe iit b/c they say so is not persuasive. What insight does it bring to the nature of God? It will change next week.

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    Yes, this question and the Watchtower answer always caused an issue in my mind ... I just chose not to accept their explanation.

    My question simply was ... How could Jehovah not know? Accepting Watchtower explanation of his choosing not to know is saying that God chose to be ignorant of something, an all-knowing God, one who knows the finale from the beginning could not choose to not know something, wouldn't the answer already exist with Him? Is He choosing not to have access to that information in His own mind?

    To me its like the ... If there is nothing that God is incapable of, can he make an object that is too heavy for Him to move?

  • therevealer
    therevealer

    Probably why my prayers were never answered. I was on the "think I'll choose to ignore" list.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    LOL,

    The Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.

    Sin was forknown and prepared for.

    Creation in His image was incomplete and is impossible otherwise.

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    It's really quite simple. The Deists such as our founding fathers had it right: there is no single sentient being up in the sky that intervenes in human affairs.

    You cannot have self-knowledge if you are all there is. The Creator did not desire to be eternally alone. Do you blame him? So without going into great detail here, let's just say he split off a piece of himself and set a process in motion for that piece of himself to evolve and BECOME like him. Notice that the meaning of Jehovah, according to the Watchtower, is "He Causes to Become." This is one of the few things that they come close to getting right. That is the inevitable outcome. God could not have been "perfect" before Creation because there would be no definition of "perfect". You can't claim to be perfect if there has never been a test of your perfection.

    The Watchtower's God is a deluded Demiurge, and they channel his delusions. Since he is far from perfect, all they can do is make up fairy tales to explain his mistakes. All of this, mind you, doesn't mean that Jehovah is real, it just means that the only thing that is real in this existence is what human consciousness generates. That's the way the God above Gods designed it.

  • bioflex
    bioflex

    Does any one have a link where i can download all the awake magazines, from like 2007 - 2011, there are somethings i want to clarify.

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