How Judicial Committees Violate Individual Privacy

by Londo111 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Londo111

  00DAD,

  About changing the private reproof to public...on page 98 of Horsewhip the Flock of God...er Shepherd the Flock of God book, it says, " If the possibility of a Scriptural divorce still exists, an announcement would protect the reputation of the congregation and the innocent mate."

  Of course, there is no scripture cited, much less than any other Biblical reasoning. How such an announcement protects the congergation's reputation is beyond me...and what if the innocent mate is NOT so innocent?

  I would rather listen to a 5-year-old with a single scripture, than a so-called elder who has nothing Bible-based to back him up. Elders often read stock scriptures and very well stray from that outline.
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  00DAD

  Londo, yes. Thanks for the reference. I served as an elder for over 20 years and am well acquainted with that point. That is, according to WT Procedure 101 what the elders SHOULD do "If the possibility of a Scriptural divorce still exists." But if they do not, they can not later go back and change it.

  One time we had a situation with a man that committed adultery. He seemed repentant so we kept the reproof "semi-private" and gave him reproof before "onlookers", those few that knew about the adultery. Stupidly, we didn't bother to ask the wife if she was considering divorce. It turned out she was. When the CO came around he chastised us soundly for not considering the very point you brought up. He also made it clear we could not go back and change our decision to "Public Reproof."

  We looked foolish.

  In retrospect, the whole arrangement is a disaster!!!!
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  isojourn

  Very strange. In my case...they required I have proof that my 'wordly' ex husband had cheated/was cheating on me. That's when I completely gave up. I had no idea where he was. It would basically mean, in their eyes I could never remarry, if I never found him and this 'proof'.
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  Londo111

  I am wondering if it depends on the CO. This public annoucement was a few weeks after a CO visit. Of course, the whole matter was handled very clumsily.

  I'm suprised more elders (all the way up to the GB) aren't more modest in terms of their authority, and the limits thereof, knowing how often they bungle. "It does not belong to man who is walking to direct his own step." Knowing this, when erring, it is much better to err on the side of mercy....
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  Band on the Run

  I never knew the details of how they operated until I started reading posts here. Recently, I listened to an excellent covertly taped recording of a jc. The lack of due process is worrisome. Without due process, fairness can't exist. No one acts as an advocate for the threatened. It seems to hinge on personal discretion. What are the factors to consider? Two people accused of the same act can achieve different results. It is so arbitrary. Saying things should be confidential is nice. It only works if one can recover monetary damages for a breach. I would trust a Roman Catholic priest b/c of the training and tradition before I would trust any elder.

  Jehovah only knows what is in someone's heart. Not having a professional clergy class makes being an elder a free, ad hoc arrangement. I doubt one could ever reach the deep pockets of the society. Your recouse would be to sue a window cleaning man. I am certain individual elders might do a fine job but the lack of training is crucial. My family had generations of JWs in it. The one thing that was always clear is you never turn to the Society for help with private issues. It only makes matters worse. Why did Jesus say to pray in private? If Jehovah can't hear your prayers, we are in deep trouble.

  I would urge anyone going before a jc to not participate. Being nice and participating only gives them legitimacy that is not earned.
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  truthseeker1969

  Question. I noticed that in the sheperding book, it only mentions no recording equipment. Have they since allowed people to take notes.

  I know of one Brother who had his attorney take a video of the elders arriving their plates/tags type of car and the elders themselves. also the brother going into the hall stating it was a judicial committee and then leaving.

  He told the elders about it and they cut the JC meeting right there and then. Why are they so scared?
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  designs

  truth-

  The Society is always afraid of lawsuits. Show up with a fake recorder, that will get you out of the room pronto.
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  truthseeker1969

  What was funny and I am not sure if it is true or not, is one df'd brother returned attended meetings and applied for re-instatement. they formed a judicial committee and he informed them that he is now a constitutional lawyer with a speciality in religious abuse of rights. They apparently turned white and fled. All I know is that the society told them not to meet with him at all until further notice.

  My sister was hauled before the elders when she divorced her husband and told them point blank that they have no control at all over anything she does and that she was cheated on and her husband has a kid to prove it, and it was up to her to decide to divorce not them. If they wanted to discuss it further then they could talk to her lawyer, they backed off.

  Another brother who apprently recorded the whole JC on his phone and told them at the end and they said he lied to them. He replied that a phone is not a recorder it is techincally a trnasmitter/receiver with a recorder on it, he was re-instated that night.

  Judicial committees are mute.
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  00DAD

  I would whole-heartedly agree with Band on the Run about not participating in the judicial process.

  I was a faithful JW for 25 years, serving as an elder for 20. Then when I started having difficulties in my marriage I went to the elders, men (I thought) that were my personal friends. These were people that I had known for 14 years. I did this because-as a JW-I was taught that that was the right and proper thing to do. I thought I could trust them. NOT!

  In fact, it was the biggest mistake of my life, even bigger than any of the bad decisions I made that led to the eventual end of my 21 year marriage! Yes, even worse than that. I thought these guys would offer loving spiritual assistance and compassion. NOT!

  I knew I would likely be disfellowshipped, but I (stupidly) believed that they loved me and my family and that they would help us work through it. NOT!

  It's now been over two years since I was unceremoniously kicked out, and during this time none of those so-called "friends" have lifted a finger to do anything to help me, not one. I have always made sure they have known where I lived and how to get in touch, but still they have not made any effort to render help or assistance: nothing, nada, zilch, zero.

  Even for the first year or so I went to meetings pretty regularly (foolishly) thinking I wanted to get reinstated (I'm over that now!) and yet no effort has been made to contact me.

  Once 1 1/2 years ago one of these guys called my cell phone. I didn't answer because I was at work. And although he didn't leave a message I thought maybe it was a reaching out for the "Prodigal Son". Later that day I sent a text message in response asking what he wanted. He sent back the message, "Sorry, I called you by accident."

  Not feeling the love!

  Summary: If you have problems, especially the more serious they are, DO NOT GO TO THE ELDERS! Seek professional help if you must from a qualified individual in the the appropriate field, a doctor, a therapist, a counselor or even a lawyer.

  BUT ABSOLUTELY, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, DON'T GOTTA' THINK TWICE: DO NOT GO TO THE ELDERS!
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  flipper

  LONDO 111- Very interesting thread. Well written. I can testify from experience that confidential information gets leaked out often. I had my Disfellowshipping overturned in 2007 in the old congregation I used to attend before 2003. Then in spring of 2011 I ran into a " brother " I knew from the congregation I attended . He was sheepish about talking to me at first when I saw him in a place of business and he told me " I had heard someone say you were disfellowshipped that's why I hesitated to talk to you. " I told him that was untrue- that I was just inactive, that I had NOT been DFed and it had been overturned by appeal and never announced. Yet apparently someone spread the false rumor. So typical of JW's. They are more prone to spread negative false rumors - than positive true statements