Is true faith possible?

freshstart

I still feel the need to worship and the desire for faith, but having been raised as a JW and not knowing anything else, I just feel confused and lost as far as faith goes. Sometimes I think that maybe their isn't a God, I just don't know.....

sizemik

It's a cut & paste from here . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Scott_Peck#The_Four_Stages_of_Spiritual_Development

But it answered a few questions for me.

The Four Stages of Spiritual Development (Morgan Scott Peck)

Peck postulates that there are four stages of human spiritual development:

Stage I is chaotic, disordered, and reckless. Very young children are in Stage I. They tend to defy and disobey, and are unwilling to accept a will greater than their own. They are extremely egoistic and lack empathy for others. Many criminals are people who have never grown out of Stage I.
Stage II is the stage at which a person has blind faith in authority figures and sees the world as divided simply into good and evil, right and wrong, us and them. Once children learn to obey their parents and other authority figures, often out of fear or shame, they reach Stage II. Many so-called religious people are essentially Stage II people, in the sense that they have blind faith in God, and do not question His existence. With blind faith comes humility and a willingness to obey and serve. The majority of good, law-abiding citizens never move out of Stage II.
Stage III is the stage of scientific skepticism and questioning. A Stage III person does not accept things on faith but only accepts them if convinced logically. Many people working in scientific and technological research are in Stage III. They often reject the existence of spiritual or supernatural forces since these are difficult to measure or prove scientifically. Those who do retain their spiritual beliefs move away from the simple, official doctrines of fundamentalism.
Stage IV is the stage where an individual starts enjoying the mystery and beauty of nature and existence. While retaining skepticism, he starts perceiving grand patterns in nature and develops a deeper understanding of good and evil, forgiveness and mercy, compassion and love. His religiousness and spirituality differ significantly from that of a Stage II person, in the sense that he does not accept things through blind faith or out of fear, but does so because of genuine belief, and he does not judge people harshly or seek to inflict punishment on them for their transgressions. This is the stage of loving others as yourself, losing your attachment to your ego, and forgiving your enemies. Stage IV people are labeled as Mystics.

Peck argues that while transitions from Stage I to Stage II are sharp, transitions from Stage III to Stage IV are gradual. Nonetheless, these changes are very noticeable and mark a significant difference in the personality of the individual.

The four stages provide foundational material for Dave Schmelzer's 2008 book Not The Religious Type.

Jeffro

They often reject the existence of spiritual or supernatural forces since these are difficult to measure or prove scientifically.

Claiming that something that has never been proven is merely difficult to prove indicates bias toward spiritual belief.

sizemik

Claiming that something that has never been proven is merely difficult to prove indicates bias toward spiritual belief.

I disagree. If anything, it displays neutrality by refraining from dogma in order to make a generalised statement. Some in scientific circles retain a spiritual belief . . . there must be plenty that has never been proven in that equation. Making allowance for the unproven is not necessarily a bias toward an unprovable belief.

sizemik

freshstart . . .

Some would say "true faith" is an oxymoron. If something is factually true by reason of irrefutable evidence . . . then the need for faith is redundant. Similarly, faith does not require conclusive factual evidence to become belief.

You can either question, or look for something to believe in, but it is difficult to do both thoroughly and at the same time IMO.

Bella15

Faith, in the Christian context, will be true to you to the extend you personally believe. If you are referring to the "faith" the bible talks about, Jesus said that faith the size of a mustard seed would move mountains.

"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ."

Moses, The Law and the Prophets wrote about Jesus, everything in the Holy Scriptures is about Christ. Christ came and He himself deliver the divine message of salvation.

I understand your question and your longing ... and after everything has been said and done by Jesus (as we read in Old Testament and the testimony of his Apostles) the question is DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS? Do you believe the divine message he personally delivered to mankind?

Forget about the Watchtower CORPORATION they do not preach the message that Jesus delivered, and do not take their deception as baseline to discard God and Christ. "Let God be true, and every man a liar."

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." Jesus said that he has seen God, the Father - do you believe him?

God is not human, and we try to understand him by human/physical means. He is Spirit and operates in the Spiritual realm. Jesus said we need to be born again. We can receive spiritual life only by being born of the Spirit.

The natural person cannot understand spiritual truth. As Jesus said, unless one is born of the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus removes any doubt that being born of the Spirit is the only way to God—the only way to see and enter the kingdom of God. Nothing more is needed. Nothing less will do.

God reveals Himself--and all truth--by the Holy Spirit. Apart from the Holy Spirit, one cannot understand God's truth. God does not favor the intellectual—He reveals Himself to those who seek Him. This is why people who have not received Christ cannot understand the Bible:

John 8:47 "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

1 Cor 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
I didn't understand being born again because I thought it was something I'd experience like baptism in water, but one who is born of the Spirit sees the effects of the Spirit without seeing the Spirit Himself.
Mark 4:26,27 And He was saying, "The kingdom of God is like a man who casts seed upon the soil; 27 and he goes to bed at night and gets up by day, and the seed sprouts and grows--how, he himself does not know.

I have learned that being a Christian it is not going door to door, or spend hours sittings at meetings and all other religious stuff, it is deeper, supernatural, it is a spiritual, personal relationship with Jesus.

Read the bible again (not the Watchtower version - I don't trust it since reading the 1954 Walsh trial transcript and about the Greber guy) and God will give you the desires of your heart ...

smiddy

Dont the Hindus have faith ?

Dont the Taoists have faith?

Dont the Muslims Have faith?

Dont all the thousands of sects of christendom have faith?

I`ve only scratchted the surface of all the beleif systems in the world,yet they all have faith

People of all faith systems/beleifs have willingly died for their cause and in many cases killed others for their faith

Millions upon millions of people have died over the centuries because of faith

"Faith" like every other beleif in a" God" is subject to a human interpretation

smiddy

designs

sizemilk- Stage III, IV

Bella- 'Moses, The Law and the Prophets wrote about Jesus' uhm not so much

Things you can believe in- looking through an electron microscope or large telescope, family, feeding the hungry, planting a tree, feel free to add to the list.

cedars

Hi freshstart - I'm a stage IV myself (thank you sizemik, for posting that) because I am now comfortable with the fact that there are many things that I don't know, indeed can NEVER know, in my limited lifetime. However, I don't feel this in any way compromises the purpose of my existence.

I personally believe that it is impossible to know the complete truth about everything in a human lifetime. However, it IS possible to find out what is demonstrably untrue, and pass this information on to our loved ones. In so doing, we make it easier for future generations to identify real truth (through the process of elimination) to the ongoing betterment of humanity.

Cedars

Jeffro

Generally, assertions about 'true' faith amount to a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy, usually with the implication that only a certain 'brand' of 'faith' is legitimate, to the exclusion of other (usually equally irrational) belief systems.

Aside from that, true 'faith' is possible (you just need to believe something without proof), but a better question is, is it worthwhile? Other than the placebo effect, there's no indication that it makes much difference.

Is true faith possible?

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