WT Society Appoints Elders/MS Based on " Functions " Performed - not ....

by flipper 44 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Balaamsass

  LOL ..is it sooo obvious? Everyone here is spot on.

  One Circuit overseer told me his "Formula" while we were reviewing every brothers time card on a Tuesday afternoon, for the upcomming Friday night Elders meeting/appointment meeting. An average of 15 hours a month for the trailing 12 months. He felt 10-12 " productive", "Visible" field service hours monthly with one month of Aux pioneering (to support the arrangement) would bring the brother up to 15 hours. "Productive"= 1 bible study & 10+ placements per month (any combination). "Visible" meant regular SATURDAY group support if even for an hour. I had a few Circuit overseers LOOK at brothers with a trailing average of 6-7 hours per month. MY assignment from the C.O. was to encourage them them to "beef up the hours". ANYONE who had had a Judicial meeting (or any type) in the last 3-5 years name was taken from the pile for Friday discussion.

  During the Tueday afternoon meeting the brothers meeting with the C.O. could plant suggestions in the C.O.s ears or "rumors" about every brother in the hall. Of course family members campaigned for family members to be "used" more. (Family members also told each other about the secret handshakes and time/placement/"visibility" regs.

  Friday night the C.O. would bring up the name of every male in the hall and the entire body would have a "shot" at the poor guy. Even though everyone knew for months about the visit, one or two elders with an Ax to grind would quietly wait and say" I'm sorry but I Just hear a troubling rumor about Brother ....... and I think we should look into it before "laying our hands hastily on him". Of course the brother would be passed over. This would happen over and over till the poor smuck got the message and changed halls. Sometimes a funny brother would be called "not serious minded" no doubt over a joke at the expense of one of the Elders in the past.

  NO ONE WANTED a pioneer appointed in many halls. Yikes! A true believer might show them up!!! :) In many halls no one wanted someone who was a real bible student, or a non team player. If need be, in some halls rather than be forced to appoint "boat rockers" some kind of "investigation" was mounted with perhaps "private" reproof that didn't get to be appealed and with no troublesome paper work going to the Watchtower Society. That would put the possible boat rocker on ice for 3 years!! There is always "loose conduct", "Causing divisions" that can be investigated. ie Farting in meetings, alone with a sister in field service, correcting/embarrasing an elder, writting any kind of letter to headquarters, repeating any negative press, reporting ANY sin without 2 witnesses against an elder..you get the point.

  Humans protect the TRIBE. The whole Borg is a TRIBE. The families with-in the BORG are mini tribes. The above info was always available to sons and nephews in the Tribe....and how to game it. Just slap on the polyester jacket for an hour Saturday AM, smile, Knock on a few doors, leave some mags at Not- at homes, get seen at the donut shop by EVERYONE, then say "I got some calls"..and go home or to a friendly "Call" to talk about cars etc.. 1 hour = 3-4 hours vola!!! Based on 45 years observation only about 1/2 of Elder and Servant families are honest about time. MOST ELDERS and Sons 6-7 hours service magicly become 10-15 hours. Clueless HONEST & smart brothers with 5-7 hours hours rarely get appointed.
• 

  Band on the Run

  Flipper,

  It is an astute comment, IMO. Paul would focus on personal character and understanding of core doctrine. What is the WTBTS becomes infected with demonic forces. There should be people on ground who know the JW doctrines to fight back.

  I grew up in a very downtrodden KH. The people were nice, good folk. The brothers were functionally illiterate. No one ever took the time to teach them basic skills. The congregation was 98% black but our overseers were always white. The three ranked people were always white. I don't fault them for being illiterate. The school system was atrocious. It made it hard to function as a congregation. The bros who were all right with public speaking dominated. It was rather sad.
• 

  seenitall

  It's a club! Every congregation is different, every CO is different and every body of elders are different. It's a game and if you play by their rules, standards and don't ruffle any feathers, you qualify. I have seen shocking things in how appointments get done, even seeing one old CO say for us as elders to write down exactly what we wanted in his report to get someone apptd or deleted. Directed by holy spirit? It is a different type of spirit and often it has 70 proof or wine, beer, monetary favors or looking the other way.

  Mentally ill brothers serve, illiterate ones serve, and up to a few years ago illegals served.

  Why aren't there background checks done? It is inexpensive and protects everyone. I challenge them to do this - it will never happen.
• 

  Balaamsass

  Seenitall, so right:Directed by holy spirit? It is a differDirected by holy spirit? It is a different type of spirit and often it has 70 proof or wine, beer, monetary favors or looking the other way."

  God punished David for doing a census, but the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society eagerly adopted timeslips and the honor system of filling them out. This has created a problem with anyone..including Sociopaths and child molestors, adopting "THEOCRATIC STRATEGY" to rise to positions of leadership among Jehovah's Witnesses. All the way up the ladder to the Governing Body.

  I know of one undercover FBI agent(investigating WTBs), one bigamist, two Drug Dealers, and two serial Child Molesters who simply played "the time card & brown nose game" and were re-appointed in congregation after congregation. Read the public documented story of Henderson in California (silent lambs). He became the Red Bluff CA. Presiding overseer despite a previous removal for CHILD MOLESTING, and a reputation for drinking and a foul mouth. It wasn't stopped till he was convicted in court. HOLY SPIRIT...I think not. The two drug dealers I know of personally made Elder in their mid 20s to snag "hot sisters". Of course they had no problem lying!! Heck they sold DRUGS!!

  All the while some smart, devout, Jehovah' Witnesses meticulously counting only 5 hours service were passed over...........
• 

  AvocadoJake

  Teetotalism is not advised, if you want to fit in with the elder body. The drinking parties, rival the spirit of Bacchus, with a touch of National Lampoon, yet remain holy and dignified, just ask them! If you saw how much wine and whiskey these men drink, "Were just wine tasting, we have a higher alcohol tolerance! Gluttony another cardinal quality, while working out, is met with a scripture in Timothy. "exercise is benificial for little, obesity is good."

  With the micromangement of everything in the Socieity, the creativity of the elders and servants is frowned upon. Trying to deliver a fresh and new perspective on outlines that are forty years old, while staying within the time constraints, a diffucult task. There are rumors of Watch-Teleprompters to be installed in high net worth areas, so anyone who can read, can give a talk! This is good news for Brother Curmudgeon, who is so old, he exhales dust!

  Thanks Balaam, you can't make this stuff up, even if you tried! Everything you wrote, I have seen or experienced!

  Friday night the C.O. would bring up the name of every male in the hall and the entire body would have a "shot" at the poor guy. Even though everyone knew for months about the visit, one or two elders with an Ax to grind would quietly wait and say" I'm sorry but I Just hear a troubling rumor about Brother ....... and I think we should look into it before "laying our hands hastily on him". Of course the brother would be passed over. This would happen over and over till the poor smuck got the message and changed halls. Sometimes a funny brother would be called "not serious minded" no doubt over a joke at the expense of one of the Elders in the past.

  NO ONE WANTED a pioneer appointed in many halls. Yikes! A true believer might show them up!!! :) In many halls no one wanted someone who was a real bible student, or a non team player. If need be, in some halls rather than be forced to appoint "boat rockers" some kind of "investigation" was mounted with perhaps "private" reproof that didn't get to be appealed and with no troublesome paper work going to the Watchtower Society. That would put the possible boat rocker on ice for 3 years!! There is always "loose conduct", "Causing divisions" that can be investigated. ie Farting in meetings, alone with a sister in field service, correcting/embarrasing an elder, writting any kind of letter to headquarters, repeating any negative press, reporting ANY sin without 2 witnesses against an elder..you get the point."

  I wish everyone was forced to see the truth of the machinations of the BOE bandits, and how coward they truly are behind the seen. If a JW has not been lied to by the elder body or elders, they must be part of the 1 percent of the Kingdom Halls.

  regarding DMZ it's yours!
• 

  flipper

  Great takes & comments by everyone ! Thanks for your opinions. Been offline 2 days, back - now I'll respond .

  WASANELDER ONCE- Your comment about career Ministerial servants, " they did one thing well, bookroom, cleaning, or soundbooth. They usually weren't intellectually bright enough to meet all the " other " requirements. " WTF ? You DO know how condescending that sounds I hope ?

  I tend to disagree with your theory. I was a MS for over 6 years. I was assigned to schedule the public talks in the congregation I served at. I went to a " public talk trading meeting " where we would trade speakers to different congregations to give talks there for some of their speakers to come to our congregation. I took care of the territories, I worked behind the magazine counter, I did service meeting parts, I gave outgoing public talks traveling , I had assembly talks & parts at Circuit and District assemblies, while raising 3 young children and working 35 hours a week and regular pioneering. I stepped down as an MS because I wanted to devote more time to my children and family. I may have in time been appointed an elder- but I didn't WANT that position as it was more important to take care of my family.

  I knew MANY other Ministerial servants who CHOSE not to reach out for elder position for the same reason. AND I knew others who simply were NOT LIKED by insider elder bodies who may have been personally prejudiced towards an older MS or one who seemed to not measure up due to judgments and whims of elder bodies.

  You mentioned " conformity " . Conformity to what ? FUNCTIONS serving the WT society is all that was usually looked at. If a MS didn't " conform " to performing the WT functions - they wouldn't be appointed elders. A lot of it was brownnosing the right people. Didn't depend on how " intellectually bright " they were. I knew a ton of dumb a$$ elders, believe me.

  QUARTERBACK- Exactly. The outward functions of microphone carrying, sound department, commenting, etc. Getting 10 hours a month . Nothing about showing the " fruitages of the spirit ". A man could be abusive secretly in his own home towards wife or children - and still be appointed an elder if the family doesn't reveal the abuse ! Policies, rules, and regulations are aLL the WT society is concerned about with elders following those rules to the tee. The JW organization has become basically like a huge corporation functioning like a business . It's cold, calloused - and it's no wonder that rank & file JW's don't want to go to elders with their personal problems. A person is guilty until proven innocent.

  GL TIREBITER- Good point by you that elders & ministerial servants have no seminary training from school to perform any REAL ministering to fellow publishers. All they learn are WT functions. Pretty lame.

  AVOCADO JAKE- I saw it too that "sisters " in the congregations were more prepared for meetings than many elders. I think many " sisters " would have done a better job teaching in the congregations really. I agree also that many C.O's and D.O's had no clue as to what living in the real world was like. The bottom line was that the WT society wanted to control the rank and file publishers in every aspect of their lives- public and private. Kingdom halls definitely were " Disturbed Mental Zones ". Good expression.

  NUGGET- Your expression that they " check the depth of conditioning " is a very good description of how they test the loyalty of ministerial servants or elders and is so true. Many enter into " elderhood " thinking they really will help the congregation sincerely- then they find out they are prevented by the body of elders own personal agendas. Very sad.

  HELLENBACK- I saw that too as you said - people getting close to prominent elders or families who were prominent promoting their own family members as elders or MS's. Usually good character or showing loving qualities had nothing to do with being appointed. You knew a guy named Rutherford ? Weird and interesting.

  PAMS GIRL- Outward appearance and position was really more important to many of these guys appointed as elders. All they had to do was the " functions " of the WT society and they'd get appointed.

  HAMSTERBAIT- The WT society thinks dicks are spiritual ? Oh - THOSE dicks. Had me confused for a minute. LOL !

  UNDERCOVER- I feel you would have made a GREAT elder ! I've really enjoyed your awesome posts and threads here on the board. The congregations missed the boat in not appointing you elder when you were an active Witness . You were one of the many MS's that went unappreciated I believe.

  TRUTH_B_KNOWN- I agree totally with your A through D scenario. You are a great example of a person who served as a MS who also went unappreciated by the elders. It sounds like you had one controlling elder who was jealous of you and your family. I bet you would have made a fantastic elder ! But- I'm glad you escaped the cult.

  KARTER- You are right. I really do feel that the WT society has lowered the bar in appointing elders these days. Heavy drinkers, guys " screwing their own sisters " ? Wow. What's this organization going to ? The dogs ? Jesus.

  MR MONROE- Sounds like you were another good quality guy who was overlooked and taken for granted with all that you accomplished inside the congregation. I've seen guys appointed elders when they averaged 8 hours a month before. You would have made a great elder too ! The WT society is losing their best people I swear.

  ZIDDINA- I liked that too. " Disturbed Mental Zone ". Pretty awesome.

  SIR 82- So you had a hard core elder say that if a " brother " did not " get along well " with other brothers it would disqualify him from appointment ? Wow. But the big question may well have been - Was it the " brother " not getting along with the elders - or vice versa ? That's what I would ask.

  3RDGEN- I agree with you. Most posters here are very bright. I feel the WT society has lost it's best members, most loving , and most sincere in spirit too. And I do feel that many elders felt threatened by " brothers " who were sincere and wanted to reach out. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely

  I'll be back a little later and comment on the next page . Thanks !
• 

  flipper

  BTTT, Peace out, Mr. Flipper ( I'll respond to pg. 2 tomorrow, gotta go to work for all night soon. )
• 

  Balaamsass

  Gosh Mr Flipper, You have a great memory, you must be using a word pad!

  "I stepped down as an MS because I wanted to devote more time to my children and family. I may have in time been appointed an elder- but I didn't WANT that position as it was more important to take care of my family.

  I knew MANY other Ministerial servants who CHOSE not to "reach out" for elder position for the same reason."

  One brother, a straight shooter and ex- elder I REALLYrespected, EVERY MONTH turned in 6 hours of time. Now we went out together every weekend. I knew he got at least 10 hours in Field service. So before the C.O.s visit I said "...I KNOW you got at LEAST 10 hrs in every month for the last year, why are you only putting 6 hrs on your time card? You will never get re-appointed. He just looked at me..smiled..then said.... "EXACTLY".

  He explained if he put down more time he would get pestered to serve. If he turned down the appointment he would be labled with a "Bad Attitude", if he turned in less time than 6 hours..same thing.."Weak" or "Bad Attitude" he just wanted to serve Jehovah and be left alone. An honest man.
• 

  Wasanelder Once

  Ok Flip, you asked for my experience. That's what it was. Our congregation was very old and the only one in town. The inbreeding was severe and it was a war zone for anyone to get appointed. We had a number of MS who were career servants, one was a servent for 20 years despite wanting to be an elder, another for over 15 years despite reaching out for elder. We went 6 years without any appointments. The problem? They were not deemed bright enough to handle the responsibilities. That was my experience. If you want to extend that to ALL congregations I can't back that. Besides the "tasks" they must fullfill came the gauntlet of popularity, economic status, often education, family affiliation and if they are "reasonable". This I never understood because very few elders I knew were reasonable people. I was bright enough but not reccomended because I often called them on their bullshit. I was an MS for only three years before I was appointed and was doing all you were doing except for the family. That's a big "except". To become a Watchtower Overlord you have to give up your soul to the company. I did this till I awoke and then I was outta there. Fundementally your are correct, the Borg appoints based on works, not faith. In my old congregation there was an education bias too. Nice topic.
• 

  AvocadoJake

  We had a elder finally appointed after battling a severe mental problem (Hoarding). He is the second person I have seen appointed with this disorder (In the last couple of years.) , which you will only understand, if you watch the show "Hoarders" on Cable TV. It is a sickness, and a hard one to break, wish these two men success leading the flock to clean waters and fields that are not littered with junk! Hoarding is a real mental disorder, that can be treated improperly by, giving the hoarder responsiblity, having him teach others organizational skills and clean habits. How ironic!