Book: "A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus"

by leavingwt 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Has anyone read this book? If so, what did you think?

    A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus

    "Meier (Religion/Catholic Univ. of America), a Catholic priest, offers a vigorously honest, skeptical, and scholarly attempt to discover the historical Jesus. The author poses an intriguing hypothetical: ``suppose that a Catholic, a Protestant, a Jew, and an agnostic...hammered out a consensus document on who Jesus of Nazareth was.'' Meier tries to create such a ``consensus document'' by examining the fundamental facts of Jesus' life (while excluding those aspects of Jesus' biography that are premised on tenets of Christian belief, like the Resurrection). In this, the first volume of a two-part work, Meier carefully conducts an exegesis of the ``Roots of the Problem'' (the New Testament texts, which are not primarily historical works; the apocryphal gospels; and the fleeting references in the works of Josephus, Tacitus, and other pagan and Jewish writers that constitute the entire historical record of Jesus), and an analysis of the ``Roots of the Person'' (in which Meier brings hermeneutic tools to bear on the birth, development, and early years of Jesus). Meier points out Jesus' historical ``marginality''--his peripheral involvement in the society, history, and culture of his age--that ironically underscores the central position he has occupied in Western culture in the centuries since he died. Rife with scholarly terminology, and thus slow going for the nonspecialist--but, still, a superb examination of a fascinating historical problem."

    http://www.amazon.com/Marginal-Jew-Rethinking-Historical-Problem/dp/0385264259

  • Cagefighter
    Cagefighter

    I bought some book on the Historical Jesus last spring. Tried multiple times to read it and just got tired head. Had no clue what the author was trying to convey.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    About the author:

    John Paul Meier is a Biblical scholar and Catholic priest. He attended St. Joseph's Seminary and College (B.A., 1964), Gregorian University [Rome] (S.T.L, 1968), and the Biblical Institute [Rome] (S.S.D., 1976). He is author of the series A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus (4 v.), six other books, and more than 60 scholarly articles. [1]

    Meier is professor of New Testament and holder of the William K. Warren Foundation Chair in the Department of Theology at the University of Notre Dame. [2] [1] Before coming to Notre Dame, he was professor of New Testament at The Catholic University of America.

  • Cagefighter
    Cagefighter

    I know way to cerebral for this dumb Texan, LOL. Just reading that bio makes me feel like I held my breath too long.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Notwithstanding whatever the book has to say, the title is misleading and borders on ridiculous (peace to you all!). Being a Jew was/is not limited to what a person believes/teaches. It starts with blood, first. Since my Lord was a direct descendant of Judah (the progenator of "Jews")... he was Jew. Through and through. Because his mother was a Jew... and he got his flesh from her. For those who deny that the Most Holy One of Israel was his father and believe, instead, that Joseph was (which is false, but another thread entirely)... that would only further my point. He was a Jew... by blood.

    That his BELIEFS may not have comported with the beliefs, actions, and conduct of many Jews at the time he walked among them... he could have been considered "marginal" with reference to THEM; however, that fact that HE adhered PERFECTLY to the Law... so as to be the only One to FULFILL it... which none of THEM did/could do... shows that he was also more of an "orthodox" Jew... than they were.

    Thus, very misleading... and so ridiculous... title.

    Again, peace to you all!

    A slave of Christ... a Jew by ALL accounts at one time (in flesh AND in spirit)...

    SA

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I agree with AGuest. Yes. Jesus was fully Jewish. His teachings were consistent with Jewish philosophers of his day. He may have had a radical view but it was not so rare in the 1st century. Paul seemed to be actor who transformed Christianity from a Jewish sect, arguing for legitimacy in the Temple, to a new religion. I've read some historical Jesus scholarship and even wrote a term paper on the topic. Marginal is a strange word. If the church looks back and reinterprets the events to fit with its doctrine, Jesus may be marginal. If you view only Jesus sans later church tradition, he was Jewish.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I know in publishing these kinds of books, the title has to be shocking if not captivating. The reviews at Amazon make the book seem more interesting as it tries to separate the fiction from what would be true.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    This book came to my attention via a recommendation by one of my younger brother's college professors.

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    There is scant evidence he existed at all except for the gospels. Put another way Paul's writing about Jesus would have barely filled up a paragraph. And the three historic writers who mentioned him were 70 years out and had no first hand account.

    However assuming he lived and was a rabbi/ teacher does Meier indicate if he could read or write? I assume he could read a little at least. But the lack of writing from him or his followers is disturbing. He also had zero knowledge of basic science, at best his science was limited to the knowledge of that era and was wrong most of the time. That would indicate, to me that he was uninformed or perhaps Jesus/Michael didn't remember anything of his prior existence or he was simply a humble...with an attitude....Rabbi of his era..

    I think the soup he was selling was pretty thin so everyone down through the years just kept adding ingredients to make it a bit more tasty and filling.

    If he was real I think he got tired of the whole thing, A lot of times he just sounds petulant , and simply wandered off never to be heard from again. This is the thing about the gods or son's of god...they get testy. Of course start with nothing written down, use the oral tradition to spread his message in three different languages over a period of 30 or 40 years, wait for a wack job like Paul to explain it all then begin a process where each group had a written scroll of their version of his life and times and you have what we have today.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    There is scant evidence he existed at all except for the gospels.

    There is scant evidence that David existed... and yet, he did, dear Gio (peace to you!). May I ask... 100 years from now (let alone 2,000)... how much "evidence" will there be that YOU existed? Yet, you do. I would wager than there'd be even less as to my existence (if you don't count what's posted on this forum... and assuming "technology" won't have made this particular media obsolete - you know, like the stuff on the old 5" floppy disks?).

    Put another way Paul's writing about Jesus would have barely filled up a paragraph.

    Oh, I think there's more than that; however, even so... Paul didn't know my Lord as a human man... but only as a spirit. What could he have written ABOUT as to that One's life in the flesh, then, as others did?

    And the three historic writers who mentioned him were 70 years out and had no first hand account.

    Yet, a Catholic priest who's close to 2,000 years out writes about him... he and many others... none of who had a first-hand account... nor even knew/know anyone who knew him... and they're the "experts"? Seriously?? We're seriously supposed to pick up THEIR writings/books... and consider THEM accurate? Goodness, do you not even see how ridiculous your assertion here is?

    However assuming he lived and was a rabbi/ teacher does Meier indicate if he could read or write? I assume he could read a little at least. But the lack of writing from him or his followers is disturbing.

    He could read... and write... and that is documented (see John 8:1-11). Even so, his goal was to REPLACE the "writings". Which is why much of what IS written was NOT inspired. One was/is supposed to walk by FAITH, not by SIGHT... which is what those who put their faith in the NT... rather than in him (the Holy Spirit) and the anointing (with holy spirit) that HE gives... are doing (the latter). Rather than looking to and at the LAW... whether depicted in the OT or the urgings of the NT... they were to look to... and at... HIM. It is because they continue to "search the scriptures", however that they CAN'T see - they are yet BLIND... and will remain so... until they ask for and receive... "eyesalve." Holy spirit.

    He also had zero knowledge of basic science...

    A man who could: turn water to wine, calm the wind, walk on water, curse a fig tree so that it would never produce again, feed the hungry (crowds, with nothing more than a little bit of fish and bread!), heal the sick, cure the lame, deaf, and blind... and resurrect the dead... had "zero" knowledge of science? (Shaking head)... okay...

    at best his science was limited to the knowledge of that era and was wrong most of the time.

    So the earthquakes and other natural "events" that he predicted for more than 30 (or 2,000 - depending on which "era" you're speaking of)... were wrong then... and be wrong again?

    That would indicate, to me that he was uninformed or perhaps Jesus/Michael didn't remember anything of his prior existence or he was simply a humble...with an attitude....Rabbi of his era..

    That you still believe he was/is Michael is telling as to your knowledge about him. Don't look now... but It is greatly lacking, dear one

    I think the soup he was selling was pretty thin so everyone down through the years just kept adding ingredients

    to make it a bit more tasty and filling.

    Actually, it was really potent... and so they've been watering it down. To make it more... ummmmm "palatable"... to those who can't eat "meat" but can only handle "milk." With sugar in it (you know, to make it more "tasty").

    If he was real I think he got tired of the whole thing,

    Because YOU would have, yes? Praise JAH... that although he was tested like us in all respects, UNLIKE us... HIS love "never failed."

    A lot of times he just sounds petulant...

    Someone who is petulant themselves might perceive him this way - I don't. I mean, some LOVE Paul... and others despise him. I think, then, that it would depend on who you ask.

    and simply wandered off never to be heard from again.

    Or... ascended to the Father... as many eyewitnesses attested to... and the outpouring of holy spirit 40 days later verified...

    This is the thing about the gods or son's of god...they get testy.

    No, that's earthing man, dear one. Particularly those who hypocritically accuse others of "creating" gods that "resembles" themselves... while doing the very same thing themselves. As you are doing here.

    Of course start with nothing written down, use the oral tradition to spread his message in three different languages over a period of 30 or 40 years, wait for a wack job like Paul to explain it all then begin a process where each group had a written scroll of their version of his life and times and you have what we have today.

    Now THAT'S some conspiracy! You forget, though, that it started long, long before he was ever born in the flesh. Hmmmm... a conspiracy perpetuated over multi-millenia by all sorts folks... many who never knew one another... and many who had no access to previous "writings." Yet, all saying pretty much the same thing. Okay, I can see how a conspiracy could arise. I can't see how, though, when other opine as to modern conspiracies (i.e., 911)... where there are just as many, if not MORE "holes" in the "facts"... folks get all bent out of shape. I realize that "911" and its related conspiracies have nothing to do with this topic; however, I think hypocrisy... which may be present here... does.

    Again, peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

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