Will Good People Go to Hell?

by leavingwt 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • PSacramento
    So if God knows ahead of time what any one supposed free moral agent is going to do, then why doesn't he make sure that the bad choice one makes does not impact those who are making good choices?

    THAT would violate free will, that would be God taking an active role in the choices of others, "making sure" as you put it.

    Which goes back to the question, why not just take the life spirit away from the evil and wicked if he knows that up front? Why allow wickedness and suffering to continue?

    Because WE decided that is what we wanted, remember?

    Auto-control, free will, the ability to chose, to know right from wrong and to be free to choose which one we want.

    In short, we want to be like God and now we are.

  • dgp

    PSacramento replied this way:

    It was a test of faith for Abe, so that Abe could see for himself that HE had the faith to do all that God said he would.

    When going up to the mountain Abe told his servants that THEY would return, Abe knew that somehow God would provide that they BOTH would return alive.

    God knew the outcome and knew that nothing would happen to Isaac.

    For all we know God could have decided to allow Abe to kill Isaac and then raise Isaac from the dead with no meomory of what happened.

    The story could have gone many possible ways.

    So, if Abe had decided that he wouldn't kill his own son, descendants or not, would he have received the prize? You say that "the story could have gone many possible ways". I say we don't know. We just cannot decide what God would have done under this or that situation. All we know -or, more exactly, what people who believe in the Bible claim we know- is that YHWH asked Abraham to go kill his son, and Abe did that. Because of that, he received the promise that his descendants would be countless. The rest is speculation.

    The fact that the rest is speculation, however, does not mean we cannot see that some things are not logical:

    If Abe somehow knew he would return with Isaac alive, why is there any value in his going up the hill? Abraham would have been pretending to obey, when in fact he would have known that nothing would happen. God would have been duped.

    I would assume that Abe would know the extent of his own faith. It is as if you were to ask me whether I know the extent of my own love for, say, Ms. DGP (if there were any). There should be no need for someone to test him so Abraham himself could know that. I will kindly ask you to notice that, if Abe didn't know the extent of his faith, then perhaps he can hardly be expected to "know" that Isaac would return alive. The story would have no value if it were all no more than pretending to have faith.

    If the test was meant for Abe to kno whe would do anything God would request, is there, then, value in simply following God's orders and doing things just because God wants them done?

    More generally, my question was meant to raise a point. Yes, there are religious people who would be kind and nice just for the sake of it. People who do good just because doing good is the right thing to do. But there are many others who behave religiously because they expect a reward, and not just among Jehovah's witnesses but among probably every religious group. They do what they do just because God told them to, and in being obedient (like Abraham) they expect to find a reward.

    Good people are indeed deemed to go to hell if they don't belong to the self-appointed "Jehovah's organization". We know that for a fact. It is also what many other religious denominations believe. Doing good for its own sake is not considered "as good" as doing things because the higher being (or beings) demand so.

  • leavingwt

    God taking an active role in the choices of others

    If people ask God to take an active role, and he does, is that kosher with Free Will?

  • PSacramento

    Kosher free will ?

    LOL !

    Nice one.

  • PSacramento


    Yes, I am just specualting.

    I think that the test helped Abe come to grips with the strength of his faith in God and in himself and his ability to be what God said he would be.

    It's not a cas eof pretending to have faith but that "extreme occasions" can show us how truly strong our faith is in god and ourselves and give us great confidence.

  • clarity

    Hmmm, I had a neighbor once, who heard gods voice telling him to kill his son.

    Soooooo he did. And the whole family as well.

    How come he went to a crazy hospital for expressing his free will? Was he not just following orders?

  • tec

    A good point to take away from Abraham and Isaac, is that God did NOT allow Abraham to sacrifice His Son. Since we are supposed to be following Christ (as christian), then there is NO calling to killing one's own child... or anyone else for that matter. So Clarity, he might have been following orders, but they were not from God or Christ.

    As per the OP - of course no good people will go to Hell. (not that I believe in the place - and the Quran describes it in terrifying measure in a couple places)



  • bob1999

    We are all bad people. It's only when God changes our hearts that we are able to seek after God.

    God then gives us faith. God sees that faith in us, that he put there, as righteousness and we are justified.

    At that point we are still not good, God just looks at us (the faith in us) as good.

    We will not be good until God glorifies us. That comes later.

    Let me say again, just because God sees us as righteous does not mean that we are righteous.

    We are still imperfect humans.

    Please watch this,



  • PSacramento
    Hmmm, I had a neighbor once, who heard gods voice telling him to kill his son.
    Soooooo he did. And the whole family as well.

    How come he went to a crazy hospital for expressing his free will? Was he not just following orders?

    To expand on what Tammy said ( that God did NOT allow Abe to do it) there is also the issue that God had spoken to Abe before and had promised him things that had indeed come true when they shoudln't have, case in point the existence of Isaac.

    Remeber that God didn't ask Abe to kill Isaac but to offer Isaac as a sacrifice, the same Isaac that was promised to Abe when there was no possible way for Him and Sarah to have any kids.

    There are many views in regards to this of course but what we know from the story is that God did NOT allow Abe to do it.

  • undercover

    Hell is the one thing I agree with JWs on. There ain't no burning hell, no torment, no pointy eared, pitchfork totin' devil.

    Dead is dead. Dead is nonexistent. Hell is the common grave. Wages of sin(imperfection) is death. That's about the most logical doctrine they have.

    So, will good people go to hell?

    Yep...right along side the bad people. No one lives forever. We all die. And we when do, we'll be in hell.

    Beyond that no one knows and there's no point in pretending to know.

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