Does the Issue of Universal Sovereignty make sense to you as an explanation for evil?

by gubberningbody 233 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  tec

  ...shouldn't we continue then?

  We can try.

  The work of the Holy Spirit is to convict the WORLD of sin, of righteousness and of judgement...AND...to regenerate the sinner, seal, indwell, empower, comfort and sanctify those who BELIEVE in Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

  And to lead us into all truth, yes.

  A persons belief in and preaching of john 8:24 IS a work of the Holy Spirit, to NOT preach it is to quench the Holy Spirit's work IN the world (1 thess 5:19)

  If that is your calling, Michelle, then so be it. You do not answer to me. Just as I do not answer to you. There are other things that the Holy Spirit leads us to do. Even Paul said that his work was to preach Christ risen. That the greatest of these: faith, hope, and love... was love.

  I love my Lord and Saviour. His SUBSTITUTIONAL sacrifice is the sole means of redemption from the guilt, penalty and power of sin(death)

  He is the sole means of life, yes. And he may grant that life to whomever he wishes. But He even states ways that some will be given life - doing good to those who belong to Him. Also those who belong to Him can grant forgiveness, according to the bible as well. "If you forgive anyone, they are forgiven."

  I love my neighbour and so I will speak truth to him

  As will I, unless he gives no indication of wanting to hear it. Actions speak louder than words, after all. It just seems, Michelle, that our truths are different.

  could you be honouring Him with your lips but your heart is far from Him...and your neighbour?

  No. My heart is his, and because He loves my neighbor (and enemy), and I love him, then I love them also.

  Tammy, if your neighbour is held captive to sin and death why would you only give him love and mercy if you can give him the key to his freedom? romans 8:2, john 8:36

  I can only give him love, and mercy, and kindness, and a witness to Christ... but Christ is the one who gives life, and freedom. Not me.

  btw...everytime you respond instantly with YOUR knee-jerk reactions to my comments and scripture citations you are acting opposite and contrary to one who would wait on the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth...titus 1:10-16, psalm 120:7

  Or... if I understand and have been led into truth, then I might be able to respond at once, because I don't have to keep asking on the same point - is this true, is this true? We are supposed to be prepared to give an answer, right? If we have understanding, that is.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  AGuest

  Michelle, I have a sincere, serious question for you:

  I have stated to you that I reject YOUR "lord"... and your desire to keep pushing the teachings of "Paul" over Christ and adherence to the old law rather than a turning to the new law (of love). I have stated that I will NOT accept your teachings. I have stated, with no reservations, that you have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit... by calling him a demon and other unsavory words... and thus, are a blasphemer. For this reason I neither pursue you nor "associate" with you but openly professed that I have left YOU to MY Lord.

  In contrast, you accuse me of listening to a bad spirit, of speaking contrary to what YOU believe I should (as stated in the, in your opinion, infallible Bible, which you consider to be the Word of God and "guide" that all must follow in order to be "right" with God, among other things), and, in essence, heresy, even apostasy. So, okay...

  Given that that is what you believe of me... why do YOU overstep the very writings that YOU purport all are to observe and adhere to... and even address me? According to YOU, I am in violation of every verse you included in your last post. If that is true, how, then are you NOT in violation of, say, 2 John 10, 11? As you wanted ME to know, that verse states:

  "If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works."

  Now, I personally observe this exhortation with regard to YOU... NOT because I read John's words... but because the spirit that is in me, HOLY SPIRIT, do directs me. Hence, I no longer greet you. At all. I don't even respond to much of what you post, unless and until you directly address me... or post untruthfully with regard to me and/or my faith. Until just now, I don't even address you other THAN to respond to your idiocy.

  You, however, cannot seem to observe the very exhortation YOU want others to observe. How/why is that, exactly? I can tell you... with one word: hypocrisy. You are not only a blasphemer, but a hypocritical blasphemer. And for this reason, I will NEVER listen to you... or the "lord" you profess to follow. I realize that that truth is something you simply cannot get through your head... and that only increases my pity for you, truly.

  Get a clue, Michelle: you and I do not serve the same lord... and certainly do not walk by the same spirit. Do NOT. So, I would advise YOU to take John's advice... and quit trying to "receive" ME into YOUR household... indeed, quit greeting ME... and sending your dark "love" in my direction. I reject it. Because whatever peace I ever wished you... returned to me a very long time ago.

  A slave of Christ,

  SA, who will keep it absolutely and totally real with you... always... and at all times...
• 

  myelaine

  dear AGuest...

  knowing you, if you came to my home, I wouldn't receive you into my home or greet you with a holy kiss.

  ...this forum is not my home, is it yours?

  dear Tammy...

  I know you just "follow" your *NOW nameless lord, but when Jesus Christ sent His disciples into the world He sent..see ephesians 4:11...we all have a "good work" to do. "but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict. titus 1:8-9

  love michelle

  *before you were bewitched...your post #171 here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/187164/5/Jesus-Curses-the-Fig-Tree

  Jesus condemned the pharisees and teachers of the law for their hypocrisy and hard hearts. They cared nothing for the people given into their care - those people who were poor in spirit and in material means as well. They certainly did not *feed* the spiritual hunger of the people, and they produced no *fruit* for the kingdom of heaven. (fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Galatians 5:22-23)

  So... Jesus gets up, goes to a fig tree that is not producing fruit when he is hungry, and finds nothing to nourish him. Just as the people go to the teachers and pharisees when they are spiritually hungry, and find nothing to feed or comfort them. The fruitless tree (spiritual leaders of the jews) is cursed. It will never bear fruit again, because it does not feed those who are hungry now. They (pharisees and teachers of the law) have lost the right to the Kingdom of God.

  I think the story actually happened (some believe it figurative, but it is the message that is important). But I think the event itself was a physical parable for Jesus' disciples. It showed Jesus' authority over the Kingdom of God. It also showed that those who do not spiritually comfort and feed the people given unto their care will be cut off from that Kingdom.

  Please also note that the tree (growing on the side of the road) belonged to no one except God, and therefore, Jesus.

  I wonder why would you dismiss every good thing Jesus did, in favor of what you think this one story says about Jesus character? Jesus fed five thousand, healed lepers and sickness, preached mercy and forgiveness, and stood up to the hypocrisy of the pharisees and teachers of the law. This is the true character of the man. Your assumption about the fig tree is being rendered completely out of context, in accordance to everything else that has been written about Jesus...)
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  Speaking of figs, I had the most delicious dessert every the other day, stone ground water crackers with warm brie, fig preserves, and grilled thick bacon.

  I also recently had fresh whole figs splits open with a brie wedge and prosciutto on top. Delicious.
• 

  tec

  I still use Jesus, Michelle... especially to people who know Him only as that. Not as often, because I know that it is not the name he was given, but rather what his name became. I'm working it out. Asking about it, praying about it. I won't be rushed by you or anyone else, or feel pressured. He knows me better than you do... better even than I know myself. Since He is merciful, (and not because I am worthy), then I can depend upon His mercy and His love and his patience for my own weaknesses/stubborness/uncertainties.

  I could use Yeshua, Joshua, Jesus, Jaheshua... probably any of those would be better than calling Him by his title instead of misprouncing His name. I think it would. But as I said, I've been working it out. I don't tend to 'work things out' quickly. I like to be sure.

  Personally, if someone messes up my name, I don't get offended, and I don't hold it against them, and I don't ignore them. At the same time, I don't like it when an immigrant comes here and has to 'Englishize' their name, just because its easier for us to pronounce and/or remember. If they want to do it, that's another story. But I think we should be the ones to make the effort to learn their name, and pronounce it correctly. I don't think they should have to give up their name.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  myelaine

  dear Tammy...

  when I asked you on an earlier thread what the name of your lord was (because the christ is a title)...you said that he hadn't given you a name... yet...

  which begs the question...who ARE you so fervently witnessing to?...really, how could anyone else personally identify that one you are witnessing to if he has no name, he may not be tested by the scriptures, he is different than the tri-unity that is praised, worshiped and known in orthodox churches, he doesn't expect you to contend earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the saints, the bible can be discarded if you "hear" him "in faith" and, it seems, only AGuest CAN hear him speak completely and correctly...but he wants YOU to have faith in him...

  again...who?...someone who moves the goal posts?...that could be any misleading, deceptive "spirit", Tammy.

  love michelle

  p.s. I haven't heard you say the name of Jesus for a long time...like others you have taken to saying "the christ" which might be a catch-all for any number of false christs...did you know that the bahai call their beloved founder the christ spirit too, but they deny that Jesus Christ came to redeem mankind from the penalty of sin?
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  Tammy is witnessing .... to my heart.
• 

  tec

  which begs the question...who ARE you so fervently witnessing to?

  The Christ. The son of God. Known by/as: Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua, Jaheshua, Yehoshua, Jesu (I don't know how many other pronunciatins there are out there).

  ...really, how could anyone else personally identify that one you are witnessing to if he has no name,

  He has a name. The name you use is not the name He was born with, and yet you use it. Based on tradition?

  he may not be tested by the scriptures,

  True.

  By love though.

  he is different than the tri-unity that is praised, worshiped and known in orthodox churches,

  Yes He is. Not ashamed or afraid to agree with you here. That 'Jesus' has somehow given his approval over wars, murders, lying, torture, etc.

  But this is no different than I have ever believed. There is no new 'spirit' in this.

  he doesn't expect you to contend earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the saints,

  I'm not sure that he eXpects me to do anything... (free will and all)... but that he asks/wants me to, sure. I think you and I have different ideas of what constitutes contending for the 'faith' though.

  the bible can be discarded if you "hear" him "in faith"

  Well, the Spirit will lead us into all truth, right? You do believe that?

  and, it seems, only AGuest CAN hear him speak completely and correctly...

  Well, that's not true at all.

  but he wants YOU to have faith in him...

  And so I do.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  tec

  I haven't heard you say the name of Jesus for a long time...like others you have taken to saying "the christ" which might be a catch-all for any number of false christs...did you know that the bahai call their beloved founder the christ spirit too, but they deny that Jesus Christ came to redeem mankind from the penalty of sin?

  And in a similar point... just because someone says the name 'Jesus' doesn't mean that they know the one to whom they are professing. To the WTS, Jesus is Michael, and I know you don't agree with that.

  People make false claims in someone else's name all the time.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  tec

  EP - That was nice of you. The words and the support behind them, thanks.

  Peace,

  Tammy