If You Had 5 minutes to Create Doubt

by roxanesophia 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Awen

  I like nateb's (peace to you) comment about asking the JW's if they are happy.

  I would then remind them how in Romans 11:4-7 Paul relates the account of Elisha speaking to YHWH and how distressed Elisha was about the leaders seeking to kill him for his speaking out against them. YHWH telles Elisha that 7,000 people in the nation had also not bent the knee to Baal (modern day Governing Body) and that God intended to preserve them, not because they in any way deserved it, but because of God's own mercy.

  Likewise there are those today who have spoken out against the GB and are not condemened by God. In fact it is they whom God intends to preserve and not the leadership who have strayed away from him.

  I would indicate that they know what I mean without me speaking of it. The doubts they have in their hearts about the Org and it's leadership. We can serve God and be happy without a human intermediary for Jesus clearly said ""no one comes to the Father except through me".
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  Nickolas

  5 minutes is much too long. As a few have expressed above, the blinders would go up even before you were midway through your first sentence. I think you create doubt in 5 seconds with one well placed comment. Like wobble says, different people will respond to different triggers, the challenge is to figure out the trigger. The one that I perceive to have had an effect in my own circumstance is "Who is your mediator?" The response was "Jesus". My reply "You might want to verify that." A puzzled look and the conversation was over. Five seconds to plant a seed. Now to let it lay for a long while until the opportunity arises in conversation to plant the next one. Depending on the context:

  "Do you know that the Watchtower held NGO status at the United Nations for a decade? That is rather odd given its condemnation of the UN.", or

  "I see Malawi's in the news again. Terrible thing what happened to JWs there but at least the Society allowed the Mexicans to avoid persecution." or

  "The Watchtower's listed as one of New York's top 40 corporations. Last figure I saw was for 2001. Almost a billion dollars in revenues."

  One thought at a time, spaced well apart.
• 

  ABibleStudent

  nateb - I always comment on how tired and exhausted they look. This prompts them to vent about the rigorous JW schedule. Then I ask if they're happy. Invariably they say yes. Then I say that's great and that's all that matters. Then I say just so you're not expecting the end to come in your lifetime and you're planning for a good long life you're on the right track. Then I wish them well and remind them that I'm available to them.

  Hi roxanesophia, I agree with other posters who have said to avoid talking about doctrine with JWs. I like what nateb suggested because you might be able to reach a JW if you can get them to examine how they feel and that you are always available for them when they are feeling down. I would suggest that you have at least two different types of questions. One type of question(s) for when you meet a JW without a biblestudy and one for when a JW has a bible study. When a JW does not have a bible study, you could ask "Why are you still a JW?", if they give you the typical WTBTS' lines then say "Really, is that how you feel; I asked you about your personal feelings.", and then end the conversation with "I am always available for you when you want to talk about how you really feel." The other type of question(s) for when you meet a JW with a biblestudy, might be like what nateb wrote. When you talk with a JW with a bible study, you want to plant seeds of doubt in the bible study. Good-luck with planting roxanesophia!!

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  ABibleStudent
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  AGuest

  Simply ask them to explain how they plan to BE resurrected and/or live forever, dear Rox (peace to you)... without having to personally heed Christ's words recorded at John 6:48-58. When they respond that they can/will live forever because they "have life within themselves," ask them how that could BE... in light of his words at John 6:51-53...

  "UNLESS you eat the flesh of the Son of Man... and drink his blood... you have NO life... within yourselves."

  ... which you most likely will have to return their attention to because they most probably didn't REALLY see/read... and COMPREHEND... those words the first run through (JWs are programmed as to what certain verses state... or mean... and so their brains automatically go to those programs when they read the Bible. Well, when they read virtually anything - they always see things with a WTBTS "slant", so you may have to redirect them back and have them read it again).

  Ask them WHY, if CHRIST said what HE did... they and the WTBTS teach something different. Then watch the wheels begin to turn in their heads. Seriously, you can virtually see it. They go through their mental "files" TRYING to find/recall some WTBTS explanation. They get to the one where the WTBTS says such verses "don't apply to everyone, but only the 'anointed/little flock/144,000". But the words "anyone" (in verses 50 and 51)... "in behalf of the WORLD" and "will live forever" (verse 51)... "Unless" and "no life in yourselves" (verse 53)... "everlasting life" and "resurrect... at the last day" (verse 54)... and "live forever" (verse 58)... won't let the WTBTS teachings process. Rather, a very SERIOUS event of cognitive dissonance occurs... one they simply CANNOT deny.

  Note, you may not get them to walk away from the WTBTS right then and there (then, again, it depends on the person and where they're actually "at" in their thinking as to the teachings of the WTBTS... as well as whether they've heard the "call" personally but have hesitated in responding up to that point...), but you will have DEFINITELY planted a seed (of doubt about the WTBTS and its teachings which, if further "watered"... will "grow". Perhaps to the snatching of such a branch "out of the fire")... because this issue... who should partake/who should not... is THE major issue that separates the "haves" from the "have nots" in the WTBTS.

  Sure, the thought/fear of "Armageddon" keeps 'em scared... but the bottom line is that they want to live... FOREVER. When they see, with their own eyes, however, that how they've been told they're gonna DO that is NOT "what the Bible says"... a HUGE "glitch" occurs in their processing. It cannot be helped. First they go, "Huh? Wait... HUH??"... then, the cognitive dissonance... and then "other" questions start bubbling up in them, as well. Because if the WTBTS has THAT wrong (and most already "feel" as if they do, but don't have the heart to go against the "FDS")... what ELSE do they have wrong?

  Has worked for me more times than I can count. Many. Numerous. Indeed, it's the only thing that has caught the attention of those I've brought it up to... and helped out. Of every age. Everything else they try to explain, justify, dismiss, etc. This one... they can't. Says it right there in black and white: ANYONE can... ANYONE who does will live forever/be resurrected... and UNLESS one does, no life in themselves.

  Oh, and it really only takes about 2 minutes, so you're well under your 5-minute limit, dear one.

  Trying to TELL them the truth... about the "truth"? Won't work. They've been conditioned to expect, defend, and repel that tack. You've got to show them... FROM THE BIBLE... where the WTBTS says one thing... and Christ says entirely another. There are other subjects, yes... but they will look to Paul (who often wrote things different from what Christ said/taught)... so that won't work. You have to use something that Christ... and PAUL... agreed on. This is that thing.

  I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA

  P.S., If they bring up Paul's words at to "eating and drinking unworthily"... which they will, because that is the OTHER great "fear" instilled in them by the WTBTS... simply ask them who, at that time, would NOT have eaten and drank, given that the way was open, by their account, until 1935 or so? Then tell them, "Surely, Paul was referring to something ELSE when he penned those words"... and then read THAT account. Once they even think the WTBTS might be wrong in their teaching as to the first (eating and drinking), they will be able to consider that it might ALSO be wrong in their teaching as to the second (what it means to eat and drink "unworthily"). The account itself will clarify what Paul was referring to... and without the WTBTS "blinders"... they will see that, as well. Another 2 minutes to spend, perhaps, but still under your five. I doubt, however, that THEY will want to end the discussion that quickly, so be prepared to go beyond the 5 minutes... but by this time, at THEIR request. Again, peace to you!

  P.S.S., Of course, if you don't believe in God and Christ... and simply want to get them out of the WTBTS... without maintaining any shred of faith in God and Christ... then forget everything I posted above. No point, really... because if you want them to believe there IS no God... you're gonna have your work cut out for you. Besides, if YOU don't believe it, the likelihood of helping another believe it is slim... to none. Again, peace to you!